Alan Day oral history

October 27, 2014

Alan Day oral history
ITEM DETAILS
Type: Interview
Author: Sandra Day O'Connor Institute
Occasion: O'Connor Institute Oral History Project
Notes: H. Alan Day is the younger brother of Justice Sandra Day O'Connor.
Link to original not currently available.

Transcript

Note: At the time this interview was conducted, the Sandra Day O'Connor Institute was known as "O'Connor House." The organization's name was changed in 2015.

O'Connor House
So Mr. Day, tell us what was it like growing up on the Lazy B Ranch with your sister?

Alan Day
I had two sisters. I was actually closer in age and closer in school and closer to and than I was Sandra because Sandra was 10 years, my senior and so When we were in first grade Sandra was in 10th. And so we were all together every summer. And so we were we were not strangers but we were not. We didn't do that much together. I was the the baby of the family and the little brother that everybody kind of took care of and I thought I was a tough little cowboy and didn't want to be taken care of.

But Sandra was always busy with all kinds of projects. She always was self starter and had a number of things going and and then quite often would have her girlfriends from El Paso come up and spending time so it would be Radford girls school for a while at the at the ranch every summer but we all, we all lived in the same house and ate at the same table and, you know, shared, shared our parents who were pretty unusual and had quite good parents. My dad was the patriarch of his empire. And my mother was the sweetest, just most supportive, loving mother that you could ask for.

So they gave us a very loving good cocoon, if you would, and, but kind of the rules were that if you thought you were big enough to do something on the ranch, then you were free to do it. And so a lot different than parenting today. Give you an example. If you were big enough to saddle your own horse get on the yourself and open the trail gate you and then you could ride as far as you wanted to ride without any supervision without having to even tell somebody where you were going, you could just open the gate and the way you do. Everybody knew when suffer was served. So you plan your day to get back by supper.

But we had a huge amount of freedom all of us did to just simply do whatever, whatever entertained us and we all learn to drive when we were maybe 10 or 11. And all of the keys were in all of the cars and pickups all the time. And so we didn't think anything about driving somewhere. And we couldn't take one of the pickups if the Cowboys needed it because feeding the cattle and checking the waters were number one priority but if we wanted to take the pick up and go down to railroad with go swimming. Well, we just nobody said anything. We just did it. And so taught us a huge amount about being responsible for ourselves and making decisions independently. We, when I see the way the children now have to say, well Mom, can I do this Mom, can I do that? That's probably correct, but we never had that. We never lived that way. We just made her own decisions and did what we chose to do.

O'Connor House
Thank you. Sorry about that cause alright so staying with this amazing childhood on the Lazy B and knowing that your sister would come home in the summer from the girls school in El Paso. Is there a particular memory you have a time that she was home either during the summer or otherwise on lazy be? What's your earliest recollection of your sister?

Alan Day

Probably rounding up when she was home on a weekend or or sometimes in the summer and making a little bit of fun of her because she was older. Yet not quite as skilled with horseback as, as those of us that stayed home and so, we'd say well, you know, we'll help sissy Sandra she was never a sissy, but you know, we'll help Sandra Sandra saddle up because, you know, she's not quite as skilled as we are and, and measuring yourself in terms of cowboy was was a big thing on the ranch. I mean, you knew where your status was in your status exactly dependent on how good a cow cowboy you were. So even though she was a little older, her status wasn't quite what I had or you know as as as a cowboy. So it wasn't age related. It was just simply skill related. And you your pecking order was based on on your cowboy skills.

O'Connor House
So what do you think so as you grew up together and you got a little older now. She graduated from high school. So you would have been seven or eight when she graduated high school.

Alan Day
Yes.

O'Connor House
And she went off to Stanford. Do you have memories of that time when she was off to school?

Alan Day
I have one particular memory that I was a big thing in my life. Everybody in the family of the ranch and everybody we knew that Sandra was special. I mean, it wasn't something that you looked up to it was just an accepted fact Sandra was skilled at at so many things and just ahead of her classmates and you know, very, very bright and very skilled and I don't remember being intimidated by it, but just just, it was the way things were. So, excuse me just a minute. My nose is itching. So, Sandra went off to college. And about that time--Well, for many years we had a lot of quail at the ranch a lot of quail just everywhere. And so I used to hunt them a little, but I also would trap quail and I was so proud of my skills at trapping quail and I would trap whole mess of quail and my mother would cook them and we would eat them and I was proud of myself at bringing quail home. You know the young boy bringing quail and for SD.

So Sandra moved in to a girls dorm at Stanford, small dorm called Kimberly house I remember the name and the girls would take turns cooking so Sandra sent word back to the Ranch, could Alan trap quail for 24 girls and could Allen trap that many quail and get them out here and I figured it needed two quail per per person. So that was 48 quail. And I took that I absolutely said darn right I can and I will. And I took that as my job and I trapped on those quail for about a week and really worked at it and got 48 quail all all cleaned and dressed and ready to go. And we had to order some dry ice from the local Ice House in Lordsburg and pack those quail in dry ice and send them out to her and I want you to know I was a proud little boy that I could trap 48, quail. And Sandra cooked them and sent word that the girls all loved those quail, you know, and Sandra cooked them. And I was so proud to be involved in even that small piece of her Stanford experience. You know, it made me feel involved with what she was doing. And I thought, I can't think of anybody else I know that could have trapped her 48 quail, so I was a pretty proud little boy for that.

So and then, when she graduated I was, when she graduated Stanford, I was seven. No, no, a little. I was a little more than that. Yeah. Ten. Anyway, my mother said, well, you have to dress up. We all, the family went to standards graduation. And my mother said, well, you have to dress properly and she went down and bought me a white suit. I call it my ice cream suit. And I wasn't sure whether to be proud of it or embarrassed wearing it because it was so different than anything I had ever put on. But my mother said, Oh, that's something to be proud of. So I think I finally decided, yes, that looks pretty cool. So I was wearing that ice cream suit to Sandra's graduation. And I was pretty proud to be her little brother and, and my dad, by the way, had talked often about he wanted to go to Stanford, and the thing he regretted the most in life is that he didn't get to Stanford and he was drafted in the First World War when he would have gone to Stanford. And that he thought Stanford was the best place in the world. So we were all brainwashed that Stanford was the mecca, was the, you know, was the was the great, glorious Mecca. So it was quite an event to get to go to Palo Alto and go to the graduation. And I remember very little of the graduation but I remember about the preparation and the big event upcoming and it was an exciting time in life.

And then one other event, Sandra brought a boyfriend to the ranch. And Andy Campbell could play the guitar and shoot a shotgun pretty well. And I thought, not guitar a banjo, he could play the banjo and shoot a shotgun and I thought now there's a real guy if he can hunt well and shoot a shotgun well and play a banjo. He's my kind of guy. And so I was quite impressed that Sandra attracted that boyfriend and brought him home to the ranch.

O'Connor House
Yeah. When did you meet John?

Alan Day

Oh, well, then Sam that John was chapter three. Sandra graduated and then went on to law school and then met John when she was in law school. And apparently Sandra's told me since then that Andy had wanted to marry her but he was older than she. And so he had graduated Stanford and wanted her to get married and go be his wife. He was an engineer and wanted her to go with him out and conquer the world. His wife of an engineer, and Sandra said, No, I want to go to Stanford. I want to finish my education.

So I think he left sadly with that decision, and then sometime later, Sandra, met John

When I first met John, he didn't rank up with Andy, I have to tell you. John was a nice guy, but he didn't shoot the shotgun and play the banjo. You know, he could tell a story and, but was not the man's man that, that Andy was. I grew to love John, John was absolutely my definition of the perfect brother-in-law. And he was so nice to me always and included me in things that I never felt I'd be included in and was just the nicest brother-in-law that I could ever imagine. So I just grew to be so fond of John. He was not an outdoorsman, he was more of an intellectual, but he, he would do things outdoors. But he has, his mind was his, his strong point, you know, was, was that really quick mind that he had.

O'Connor House
So, growing up, she she's gone through Stanford, she's met and married John. And so now they come back to Arizona. And tell us about the transition from her into becoming a lawyer. What was your perception of her as she started her career?

Alan Day
A lot of struggling. She studied hard. I can't remember, I was still in high school and they got back from Germany and they went to Tucson and they took a bar review course because they both wanted to get to practice law in Arizona and they didn't have an Arizona license. And we went down to Tucson to visit them once, and it was in the summer and they had rented the hottest, ugliest apartment in all of Tucson. I mean, it was just ugly. And I went down there to visit with my parents and I thought, how can anybody live in this? You know, and so they had very humble beginnings in Arizona.

And so was that, that was post, post-military service for John and them coming. And I think John wasn't even sure he wanted to practice in Arizona. And it was, he came from San Francisco and loved the Bay Area, and rightly so, you know, and had a lot of people that he knew. But when they decided to stay in Phoenix, then the first few years were, I think, spent a lot just getting acquainted and, you know, making the contacts that then both of them knew everybody in Phoenix once they were established. And they immediately became a real fixture in Phoenix, but the first couple of years were, you know, trying to keep bread on the table and hatch a couple of babies and build a house and, you know, become part of what Phoenix is. And so I think that was that was pretty tough.

I remember when Sandra and John had only been in Phoenix a couple of years, and Sandra called the ranch and she said, Well, there's this set of apartments that's in financial trouble. And if you guys--meaning, you guys, she meant my father and me, we were on the ranch--and she said, if you guys would loan them some money, the apartments are collateral for the money, and so they'll pay you a good interest in a few, if they can't pay you'll get the apartments. And, and so my dad who was not much of a risk-taker said yes. And so I said yes, and we both put up some money and the apartments went broke. And my dad was furious. He said, "Well, we are going to lose our shirt on this deal."

And so I went over, I was back out of school by the end. And I went over and worked at the apartments and painted them and they were not all rented. Of course it wouldn't have bank be gone bankrupt if they were rented and advertised and Sandra helped and we got them all rented. And, but my dad, who was very critical of getting in through the back door and taking, you know, bankrupt property and we'll never get our money back, and oh, this is awful. And Sandra then got them sold, and we got all our money back. Of course, the guy that bought them turned around and doubled his money immediately. But my dad was real happy to get his money back. But then Sandra quietly told me, "Well, I really don't like the criticism I got for this thing, and I don't think I'll be recommending investments anymore," because my dad was the ultimate critical investor. And so not a lot of people wanted to partner with him just because if things went bad, he, I guess the term "poor loser" might, might apply. So anyway, that's, that was tough on Sandra, but taught me some things about business and taught me some things about Phoenix and about them getting established in Phoenix and who their contacts were and things. And so I thought it was a cool time, and I thought it was a, it was an okay experience. Not a world beater, but I thought it was okay, but I think that was the only time I ever partnered with my dad on anything because he was, he was difficult.

O'Connor House
When she was eventually appointed to the Arizona legislature in the Senate, what were your thoughts at that time about your, your sister?

Alan Day
Well, of course, I was proud of her. And I thought, why shouldn't she be in the senate? She's the most capable person in Phoenix. So why shouldn't she be in the senate? And it was not something that was astounding. It was just, well, everybody knows that. If you want to get something done, ask Sandra to do it, she can do it. And so that was kind of common knowledge.

But then the other, another thing that happened when she was in the State Senate that was very instructive to me is, I had then started as a freshman at the University of Arizona. And I was a wild child. And so I called, I got caught drag racing on one of the streets in Tucson and got thrown in jail. So I thought well, I can probably take care of this. So I call Sandra thinking you know, Wow, she's a big shot, you know, she can take care of this. And I said, well, Sandra, I've had some trouble here and I'm in jail and three days but you know, three days of jail is three days of jail, okay? And I did not want to go to jail three days, and I said, Sandra, you know, I have this this problem here in Tucson and what can I do about it? And she said, I suggest you hire a good lawyer and hung up on me. So, no, she wasn't terrible. I was unhappy with that answer. Believe me I was unhappy. But I've come since to appreciate it even more, you know, as time goes on, the exact correct answer taught me a lesson that I never tested again, which is asking Sandra to bail you out of a bad situation. Because our dad taught us and our, our whole motto in life is, "You're responsible for everything you do, and you're responsible for the good and the bad. And if it turns bad, you fix it." And so that was exactly in concert with everything that our dad had taught both of us. So I probably knew the answer before I called her, but I didn't see it that way. So that was an interesting experience. No, not mean. I thought it was mean at the time. I don't think it's mean now.

O'Connor House
So did you spend three days in jail?

Alan Day
I did. Well, I take it back. I spent a day and a half because they, they said if you wash the police cars, it will let, you have to wash police cars and you get double time for washing police cars. So I think I washed 56 police cars that, that two days in jail.

O'Connor House
So now she's in the Senate. Now then, the next thing is, Governor Babbitt appoints her to the Court of Appeals. Now she's the judge. Any thoughts? Recollection, that transition?

Alan Day
Just knowing, I always knew that Sandra was just capable of whatever she set out to do. I mean that I did. Don't bother me with what it is, if she sets out to do it, she can do it. And so I I was not surprised at that. And I thought, well, she'll be a damn good judge. And I suspect she was.

Along about that time, she came to me one time and she said, "Alan," she said, "It's big corporations are looking for capable women to be on their boards that, that corporate boards have all been men's domain and they're trying to put capable women on their boards of directors." And she said, "I've been offered directorships of several big corporations." And she said, "I could make quite a career. They paid pretty good. You go really interesting places and you meet really capable people." And I said, "Well, Sandra, that's quite, quite an accomplishment to be in that position, to be wanted and needed on those corporate boards," and she said, "Well, what do you think?" And I said, "I'd jump on it in a minute." And she didn't. And I didn't expect her to take my advice. But I did think, "Wow, isn't it a neat story that she has so much skills that she would have that offered to her and even be in a position to turn it down?" You know, or to accept it? I mean, that's, that speaks a lot and, and then about that time, the Republican Party in Arizona, begged her to run for governor, and she turned that down, too. And they could have handed her the governorship on a, on a platter. I mean, she would have been elected with, I won't say no opposition, but she could have been handily elected. And she turned that down.

And I can remember thinking, "Well, wow, she's had so many good tracks, so many good offers. She must have something else in mind. And I wonder what that is?" And I guess the rest of the story has been told, but did she know ahead of time that she was headed where she went? Or did she just think, "I'm destined for different things," or what was her mind, mind thought there? She never did share that with me. But I have a hard time imagining somebody that would turn a couple of offers like that down and not out of meanness, just you know, no, I don't think I quite fit with that, was pretty much how she did it. So I never had any doubt that whatever she tried, she would succeed. But it was a little not mystified, but just a little thinking, in awe, you know, that, that, that, that either of those kind of careers would have been laid out in front of her with a, you know, with a paved road? And she would very nicely say thank you, but no, thank you.

O'Connor House

So when the call came from President Reagan to nominate her to the Supreme Court of the United States, did that answer your question?

Alan Day
Pretty much it did. Yeah. I mean, I had thought she's destined for even bigger things that I can't even imagine, you know, because kind of a height to my ambition would be on, to be on for, you know, big corporate boards, or I'd think how does it get better than that? Well, it does, and it can. But I, my vision wasn't that big.

O'Connor House
So what were your thoughts? What was your reaction when that call came from the President?

Alan Day
I thought, Hey, we got the right person. You know, good for you. Have it picked a person, it's the exact right person to be the first person on the court. I just simply had that amount of confidence in, in who she was and what she could do. So it's not surprising here, really wasn't surprising to me. I didn't anticipate it. I'm not saying that. But when President Reagan saw those qualities in her I thought, "Well good for him." You know, he picked the right person.

O'Connor House
You traveled to Washington at that time for either the hearings or--

Alan Day
For confirmation, yeah, we, the whole family went back for the swearing in. And so that was a--

O'Connor House
Tell us about that. What was that like, to observe that?

Alan Day

Probably more than you can get your arms around. You know, I had not been to Washington. Sandra, of course, arranged for sightseeing and, you know, and all these receptions and parties and everything. But, you know, it's so big and it's so different and it's, runs on a different mentality and a different way of thinking. And it was really too big an experience to get my arms around, I was there thinking, wow, you know, I'm at the center of a lot of things. But it couldn't, couldn't quite figure out what those a lot of things were, or, you know, how they, how they worked, and so--fun to be there, proud brother, but so far out of my element that I just, you know, couldn't quite wrap my arms around that whole thing. And I wasn't opposed to it. That's not, I'm not meaning that connotation at all. I thought she was the right person to handle it but holy Moses, what a , what a strange place.

O'Connor House
So bring us full circle and, having walked us through her story and career, and bring us back to the Lazy B and growing up in southeastern Arizona. And from the same parents in the same family. What elements, what is it that made you think, that helped define who she is? How did the Lazy B and that southeastern Arizona, that ranch girl, help create the individual that we know that has such strength and grit?

Alan Day
Well, I think she's referred to it a lot. But I fully agree that our dad just simply said you're responsible for everything you do and everything that's around you. And if you dream it up and make it happen, then you follow it through and you make it a success and and if something's broken, you fix it and just the sense of being able to do What you set out to do and then setting goals that you know, hopefully are good goals but then being able to just make it happen just for the personality make it happen. And I don't know we we both got that obviously she she got that in huge dose. And but you know in my life, I found out that if I set a goal and just set my eyes on it and said I'm going to do this. I just simply was able to do it just in and it had more to do with force of personality than any other thing. And so we're both victims of are grateful recipients of some really strong genes that We can be a little prickly and sometimes we can be pretty forceful, but on the good side we can set goals and just achieve those goals.

And so, I think, part of it was the setting there on the ranch and part of it was the combination of genes that that we got from our parents. And then from my part I, I was associated with this rocket ship of a sister, and seeing her accomplish everything she's accomplished just gave me confidence and things that I can do because hey, that's my sister and wow, she's, she's important in the whole world and, and I didn't have goals to be important in the world, but I had goals to be important in my chosen field. And I just didn't recognize any roadblocks. You know, just was able to go and do what, what I set my goals for and that family background and our dad being who he was, teaching us what he taught, and then the genes we had, all combined to make really strong people.

O'Connor House
Well before we close, I should ask if there's anything else you'd like to say or add about
yourself, your sister.

Alan Day
Well, I tell people with a smile, but I tell people that I have the best job in the world, and that's being Sandra's brother. You know, that's, that's a little humorous, but guess what, it's also true. So, I just am. And something else that Sandra has shown me that maybe I had or maybe I didn't have, but she showed me. She is so loyal and loving to her family. And her family is so important to her and she certainly set a strong banner in the ground about family loyalty. And would I have been as loyal to my family if she hadn't shown me the road? I don't know. But she was there first and she was a shining banner of loyalty and loved her family. And I mean all of that. And I try as hard as I can to live up to those kind of things and a lot of it is because of things that that she has taught me.

Sandra Day O'Connor
I was lucky I had a good brother . Strong.

O'Connor House
Thank you. Thank you so much. That was just fabulous. Wonderful.

Alan Day
Well, yeah, I would add, I would add something. When Sandra called me and asked me to write a book with her, we had always been 10 years apart, you know, forever. But somehow as you grow older, the amount that, your age apart is not as significant as it is when when you're younger. And anyway, so we embarked on this book, and so we talked quite a little, maybe more than we had talked in the past, but on a couple of occasions. We set about three days aside So that we could just focus on writing the book and be together.

And each of those occasions we ended up laughing and crying and talking and sharing memories of the ranch and ideas for the book. And the project that we shared. And we've always been loving and close, but the act of writing the book brought us twice as close. And so just the act of writing that book together, the biggest result of it, the biggest thing from that was how close we grew by the act of doing that, and so I am just so grateful for the opportunity that was offered to write that book because I just, you know, it brought us closer than we'd ever been. Wow, what a nice thing.

Yeah, We had this remarkable--

O'Connor House
How nice to be able to write about that.

Alan Day
Yeah. Yes.

O'Connor House
From the time you started that you that, the idea of writing the book about the Lazy B to your conversations and getting together and getting it published, what sort of period of time did that take?

Alan Day
A year, maybe a little more, a year and two months to a year and a half? We, I started my part, I said, you know, I told that in my talk, you know. I said, "Well, Sandra, how do I start to write a book?" And she said, yellow pad and a number two pencil. It was exactly what she said, typical Sandra. But I didn't have any background in writing so and in--well, it did, because I didn't know where to go and, and she didn't say, "Well, I'm going to set the framework up and you try to fill in the holes" or anything, she just said, "Write whatever you want." So I started writing chronologically, you know, our grandfather settled and our father came along. And, and that's kind of logical, you know, we're writing about a period of the ranch, and you you do it chronologically. So I struggled with that. And I worked at it and put it aside and worked at it for maybe six months, maybe five months. And finally, one day I said, what I'm going to read everything I've written in just in one sitting, I want to sit down and read it all. And it was so bad that I threw it all away. I didn't even keep it for reference. It was just boring. To the ultimate. It was so bad. I was humiliated by it.

And so I said, well, if I went back and did it twice as good, chronologically, it would still be bad. You know, I mean, it was, it was that ugly. So I said, Well, I have to think of a new framework to hang this on. You know, this chronological thing just doesn't work. At least not for me. Other writers can write chronologically and make it work. I couldn't. So I called Sandra and I said, I, this format we're using this chronological, wow, it's awful. And she said, "Well, why don't you try the little vignettes, like Chicken Soup for the Soul or, you know, these little three-page vignettes?" And I tried vignette and failed at that. And so then I thought, well, I'm just gonna have to think of a better way to present this. I kind of know what I want to present, but I need a wagon to put it on. I need a format for it.

And I gave myself 10 days to think of that, and I just sat and thought for a lot of that time. And finally, the thought dwindled down in my head and I thought, "Okay, who do you like to read? Who's your favorite author?" Larry McMurtry is the answer. Oh, I love that book. I then thought, "Why do you like Larry McMurtry? What is it about his writing that attracts you? What is good about that?" My answer, to me, was his character development. You want to go on the adventure with all of his characters. And his character development is just fabulous. And then I thought, "Holy Moses, that's the answer." Because we had six people in our lives that were just special. Two of them were our parents, but four of them were cowboys. That worked for my family, each one for more than 50 years. And they were these loyal, hard-bitten, tough cowboys and every one of them so different. And they changed my diapers and hers, taught us how to ride, taught us how to drive, taught us so much. And they were all these incredible characters. And I thought, if I can just bring those six people back, the reader can see the range through their eyes, you know. So my job is just to write about those six characters.

So I stopped everything else and started writing about M.O. and D.A. and Bug and Claude and Rastas and Jim. A number of things happened. The first was, the writing got a lot easier because they, they're just family, you know, and just sit down and write about your best friend. That's pretty easy to do. And the second, the book took shape. And so I sent those chapters to Sandra, and we never again discussed the formation of the book. It just, those chapters are the center of the book. And there's what we built the book around, we wrote stuff in front of it and stuff behind it. But that's the heart of the book. And so the act of doing that was just so much fun, and it was creative to do it that way. And, and I don't know, I just grew to like writing. But then it made me even appreciate the ranch even more than I already did. Because to frame it, you can look at it and think, "My God, that was so special." And these aren't bigger than life, this is just the way it was. And so , you know, her asking me to write the book and then going through that process and all that. I'm not the same person I was before that. So you know what, what a gift that is, is to go through that. So.

O'Connor House
That's wonderful. Thank you. priceless. Thank you so much.

Alan Day
You're welcome. I probably went on too long.