Note: At the time this interview was conducted, the Sandra Day O'Connor Institute was known as "O'Connor House." The organization's name was changed in 2015. This transcript has been edited for clarity.

O'Connor House
Tell us about the first time you met Sandra Day O'Connor.

Steve Savage
The first time I met Sandra would have been through John, and I really can't recall. It was either at a law firm function. I was at Fennemore Craig with John [inaudible] in 2003. And I honestly can't remember.

O'Connor House
So tell us about the connection through John O'Connor. Tell us the story.

Steve Savage
Well, I was lucky to start with John, and professionally he was my mentor. I had about half of my work coming through John and Fennemore Craig and...this is 1973 until Sandra went to the Supreme Court, which was, what, eight years later? John was a combination of business lawyer, litigator, real estate lawyer. In those days the firm was maybe 20 lawyers, and you did a little bit of everything. John was competent at everything and always prepared. Always thinking in advance. He was a great mentor. John took great pains to introduce people, younger people to people in the community. He and Sandra brought young lawyers over to their house. John was active in Rotary. I went to several Rotary meetings with him on Fridays, the old Rotary Club in downtown Phoenix. He was very committed to that, and he just was...He took care in getting younger people introduced in the community, as did Sandra.

O'Connor House
So did you ever go to the O'Connor House?

Steve Savage
I did. I have vivid recollections about that. Well, it's a vivid recollection because it's where I met Sandra's brother Alan. At the time, I was just beginning to get interested in horses. And I think I had a horse at the time. And so I thought, you know, get to know Alan and get invited out to the ranch, which was the last thing he wanted...So I spent some time with Alan, and ultimately did some legal work for the ranch and got to know him better and was ultimately invited to go out to a round-up. I got some good advice from Sandra about what to do and what not to do, and we became good friends.

O'Connor House
So, tell us about the time then, when at your law firm, now she gets her nomination. Tell us about that.

Steve Savage
Well, I remember, Lois and I were in San Diego on vacation, on the island off, what's the island off San Diego? Coronado. I remember getting the news one morning. And it was a blow to me, personally, because I depended so much on John. But it was, it was a major surprise. I knew Sandra's background, I knew where she came from. And it was just a remarkable story to think, with her background and what she'd accomplished, she was taking the next step to the Supreme Court.

O'Connor House
So what happened after that?

Steve Savage
The law firm got very involved with preparing her for the hearings. And we—actually, Lois and I, actually went back to the swearing in or whatever the ceremony was at the Supreme Court. And that was pretty exciting, in the Supreme Court. Didn't go in the chambers at the time, we got a tour and were in the courtroom. And then from that point on, John was just, he kept in touch. We'd run into him off and on. He invited me a few times to the Bohemian Grove, which was very important to him. That was a big part of his life. He didn't lose interest. John took great interest in the younger lawyers that worked with him.

O'Connor House
How would you describe John O'Connor?

Steve Savage
John... Well, there are a number of features about John. One, as I said, he was always prepared. Before a hearing, he would take the day off, not come in the office and totally immerse himself in a case and prepare for it, and have an outline in his mind. He'd know exactly what he wanted to do. He was a great writer, he was to the point, he was organized. He knew how to convince a judge. He knew how to beat the opposition just by being more prepared. And it was fun to work with him because of that. I mean, he won cases because of all the work you and he would put in, and it was rewarding. He was a very social animal, I'd say. You know, John would love to entertain, to be entertained. He was a great dancer, great storyteller, great joke teller. He was studious about taking notes on jokes and stories, he'd write them all down. He had a file with all his jokes and stories. I had a copy of it once, I don't know what happened to it. And particularly Irish stories. And he had some Scottish stories.

O'Connor House
Is there a case that you remember working on with him?

Steve Savage
We worked on seven to 10 motions for summary judgment, which is basically a hearing where you go before a judge and say that, based on the facts, the non-disputed facts, we ought to win this case based on the law, and then you brief the law. John was a master at that. I enjoyed those types of cases with him because the other side was never as prepared as John, and so he was very successful at it. He made it easy for the judges to rule in his favor. In the business transactions he got to the bottom line pretty quickly. And didn't over-lawyer business deals. He was just someone who was good to learn from.

O'Connor House
So tell us about the swearing in.

Steve Savage
I don't remember much about it, other than it was...you know, the going to Washington and knowing the family and seeing her folks there and her brother and her sister. When you knew the history of the family, it was kind of just an incredible story, to see it.

O'Connor House
How many people were in the room?

Steve Savage
Well, the courtroom filled up. I just don't, I can't remember, it was a long time ago.

O'Connor House
So , tell us about the Bohemian Grove, what you can tell us.

Steve Savage
Yeah, I was probably sworn to secrecy. I'm not sure I can. (laughs) John was in charge of, I think he was in charge of the speakers for a few years when I was going, which was a big deal. I mean, that Bohemian Grove is a group of very impressive men: musicians, politicians, ex-military or active military people, former Secretaries of State, successful business people. People from you know, all walks of life who had just been very successful. And John was well known by everybody, and he loved to mix. He loved to walk from one camp to another, and he knew everybody and everybody knew John. I could understand why it fit him perfectly. Every morning they'd have a speaker. They'd have a speaker in the afternoon, on very, very erudite subjects. And so it was a fulfilling experience for John and for the few times I went. It was, you know, it was something that couldn't be done any better than they do it.

O'Connor House
Can you share with us any stories about going down to the Lazy B with John?

Steve Savage
Well, John never really went to the Lazy B other than for family occasions. I mean, I think I heard the story when, the first time he went there they were branding calves and, you know, and they castrate the bull calves, they can throw some testicles on the fire and get Rocky Mountain oysters. So Sandra's father D.A., I think, offered some of them to John, and I don't think that went too well. (laughs) But John never got into the ranching aspect of it, I mean that was not his cup of tea. Sandra crossed over in both worlds. She could be talking to cowboys or she could be talking to a Secretary of State, and...But John was definitely on the Secretary of State side.

O'Connor House
Were you ever down there when Sandra Day O'Connor was out at the ranch?

Steve Savage
The, just a few times. Actually the one time I remember is, the ranch had its 100th anniversary, they had a big celebration. And I remember Sandra invited Lois and me and the kids into the house after it was over to spend some time with the family. She was always very gracious about that, but I can't...That may be the only time. I used to go with her oldest son, Scott. We used to go to round-ups together. But I can't remember Sandra being there at the same time, other than that one.

O'Connor House
Tell us about the round-up.

Steve Savage
Well, it's a, you know, it's very Western. I mean, it's a big ranch, the pastures are enormous. You're basically gathering up all the cattle and, and helping, you know, they sort out the calves from the mama cows and brand and castrate and dehorn and sometimes, you know you're cutting cattle out to be shipped. For me coming from Connecticut, it was a major eye-opener. It made a big impression on me. I loved going back there twice a year. Then they sold the ranch, and that was a sad day for me. Yeah.

O'Connor House
Do you recall the, when the ranch was sold?

Steve Savage
I don't remember, it was a while back. Yeah.

O'Connor House
Alright. Now, we were told that we should ask you about John and peanut butter.

Steve Savage
Well, John had a few expressions I heard a few times. One was that, "Lips that touch peanut butter will never touch mine." I don't know what he had against peanut butter, but he didn't like peanut butter. The second expression I heard more than once was, "It doesn't matter how smart you are, it's how smart people think you are." I think in his professional life that was a rule that helped him. Because he was always prepared. He always seemed like he was really on top of it more than the next lawyer. But he had a lot of expressions. Yeah,

O'Connor House
So let's talk about, how did you get involved with O'Connor House?

Steve Savage
I got involved with O'Connor House—I think the first meeting I had was with Elva Coor. Elva called me a few times, met with me once. And I ultimately had a breakfast—I say "ultimately," it wasn't a long process—Sandra asked to have breakfast with me and asked me to do it. And, you know, what do you say when somebody who's made that kind of sacrifice and commitment asks you to do something? So I did it, but it's turned out to be very rewarding. And it has made a lot of progress.

O'Connor House
Tell us about the time that you've been involved with O'Connor House, what, what's evolved, what has, what has, what has impacted you the most, what are your observations of O'Connor House and how it's evolved since its inception?

Steve Savage
Well, I think it's now achieved a significant voice in the community. People, particularly with the involvement of Sandra, will jump whenever you ask them to participate in something or you want exposure for an issue or you want to bring people together. It, she has incredible power in this state in terms of influence and people wanting to do whatever she wants them to do. But she's really not asking them to do anything. She's just very graciously asking people to speak or ask them to get together, or trying to shed light on some issues. It's very impressive to see how people react to her. I can't think of anyone else in the state that carries the same weight that she does.

O'Connor House
Where do you see opportunities for O'Connor House?

Steve Savage
Well, you know, the intransigence that the--and I'm talking about among politicians, now--the lack of political discourse, the extreme positions, the polarization...I mean, makes you cynical about what O'Connor House can do, but we're trying. I think we are making a real effort to get people together to discuss the issues, but I think at least educating, on a high plane, people about what some issues are and what different points of view are. In terms of our ability to actually get people together to come to some compromises, I don't think it's going to happen very often. But I think we're elevating the level of discourse.

O'Connor House
So, is there one particular memory that you have of Sandra Day O'Connor that's most enduring?

Steve Savage
You know, on a personal level, I think the one memory I have with Sandra that's helped me out quite a bit was the, sitting on the outside at a resort in Sedona before I went to the first round-up. She was talking to me about it and said, "Steve, just keep your mouth shut and stay out of their way." Which I did. I still remember that. (laughs) And it was advice that worked. If she hadn't said that, I probably, you know, would have screwed up and wouldn't have been invited back.

O'Connor House
The spice of life. So, we know the obvious, but is there anything, any, in your estimation, where do you think she's, her most important or significant contribution has been?

Steve Savage
Well, I, apart from her, you know, obvious intelligence and dedication and hard work, she is a great, practical person. Part of it is from her ranch upbringing. I mean, she, and this comes out in the book and the, you know, growing up on the Lazy B, she just, if there was a job, she got it done. You put your nose to the grindstone and just did it. She is a doer. And I think when it came to the Supreme Court, the benefit, the major benefit to the country was, she was a person that had judicial background, she had legislative background, she had a background with her family and the ranching experience where it was very helpful in just bringing people toward the middle on the Court. She was, from what I understand and could observe, she was basically the person that brought some common sense to some tough issues.

O'Connor House
Was there anything else you'd like to add about John O'Connor, Sandra Day O'Connor?

Steve Savage
I guess the one thing about John that I think people have talked about, that he was not intimidated by Sandra being on the Court. I think he loved the experience. I think he, well, it hurt him professionally. You know, if he had stayed in Phoenix, he would have been a big deal, managing the law firm and being a big-time lawyer here. Obviously, going to DC where he had no relationships was professionally damaging to him, but he loved every minute of it. I think it was terrific for John.

O'Connor House
I think you've covered a whole lot of area that nobody else has covered.

Steve Savage
Oh, good. Good.