Jon Stewart
I've got a former United States Supreme Court Justice. She has a new website about civics education at www.OurCourts.org. Please welcome to the program Justice Sandra Day O'Connor.

Obviously, we're going to talk about this new civics website because I think it's a really exciting thing. But the first thing I must do is, this has been, I've always sworn that if I met you, this would be the first thing out of my mouth.

Sandra Day O'Connor
Uh-oh.

Jon Stewart
No, your deciding vote in Zelman v. Simmons-Harris. I was stunned. I mean.

Sandra Day O'Connor
I remember that. What did we do? What did I do?

Jon Stewart
To have, to repudiate the private choice precedent set in Lemon v. Kurtzman I thought was outrageous.

Sandra Day O'Connor
(laughs) Well, that's the way it goes. Some you like, some you don't.

Jon Stewart
(laughs) Wait a minute. Tell me about this civics website. You've been away now from the court for how long?

Sandra Day O'Connor
Three years.

Jon Stewart
Three years. And what was the thought process behind getting involved in the web? And--

Sandra Day O'Connor
What I became aware of increasingly in those last years was all the criticism of judges across America. We heard a lot in Congress. And in state legislatures, we heard a lot about activist judges, didn't we? Secular, godless human--humanists trying to tell us all what to do. I mean, that was what we were hearing. And I just didn't see it that way. And I thought perhaps a lot of Americans had stopped understanding about the three branches of government. And actually, the Annenberg Foundation took some polls. Only a third of Americans can even name the three branches of government, much less say what they do. How do you like that?

Jon Stewart
That's not good.

Sandra Day O'Connor
No, that's what I--

Jon Stewart
Only a third can name the three bran--I thought you were gonna say only a third could name the Supreme Court justices, but literally can't name the three branches of government.

Sandra Day O'Connor
Right.

Jon Stewart
Can they name, let's say, an American Idol judge?

Sandra Day O'Connor
Yes. 75% of them can name at least one American Idol judge.

Jon Stewart
Is that true?

Sandra Day O'Connor
Yeah, that's true. That's what the poll showed.

Jon Stewart
We're going to need more than a website.

Sandra Day O'Connor
I know! So this is my pitiful little effort to get started on--

Jon Stewart
It's a great idea. Is the idea that the future of education will be sorted through games? Because isn't it, doesn't No Child Left Behind, isn't the idea that we're not leaving these children behind anymore? Isn't that--

Sandra Day O'Connor
Well, No Child Left Behind is a program to give some federal money based on test scores in schools on math, science and reading. And then the schools, if the test scores are high, get some federal money. And civics isn't included in there. Neither is American history. So we're kind of falling away. About half the states no longer make civics and government a requirement.

Jon Stewart
Half the states. You could graduate from high school and have no civics requirements. Is there an American Idol requirement, that you have to watch--

Sandra Day O'Connor
Apparently people are willing to watch that without a requirement.

Jon Stewart
(laughs) That is true. You know, as a secular, godless humanist, I think, myself, when all that--[cross-talk]--I'm an activist toast. When all that was brought to bear, were you guys stunned? There is this sense of the Supreme Court as being very cloistered from the public, you know, kind of in, in their darkened chambers. And there's no TV, you know, they're not televised trials. Would they ever do that? Would they ever think about doing that?

Sandra Day O'Connor
We don't have trials. We just listen to some oral arguments.

Jon Stewart
Right. Okay. So that's not considered a trial, that's purely--

Sandra Day O'Connor
Right

Jon Stewart
Okay. Would they televise those, or would that change...?

Sandra Day O'Connor
They aren't televised now, and it would require agreement of the justices to do that. And it may come to that someday, but it hasn't so far.

Jon Stewart
I hope it doesn't, not that Judge Judy isn't fascinating, it's just--to see that aesthetic applied to the Supreme Court may not be the right move.

Sandra Day O'Connor
May not.

Jon Stewart
But when we come back, we're going to come back, I want to talk about the perception the Court has of itself, and do you feel that public pressure? Because I remember that the rhetoric against the Court really got ramped up over these last few years.

Sandra Day O'Connor
Well, it did. And when I was a youngster, I grew up on a cattle ranch in a remote area of the southwest, and we had this little road that went to town. And there was a big "Impeach Earl Warren" sign on that road. That's how long ago it was. But that was the last time I remember a huge uproar about justices, anyway.

Jon Stewart
And you felt it? You literally, you got, would you guys talk about it?

Sandra Day O'Connor
I think from time to time, sure. Yes, of course.

Jon Stewart
Like, "You hear these idiots?" That kind of thing?

Sandra Day O'Connor
Uh-huh. Did you see?

Jon Stewart
Alright, we'll go to commercial. We'll come back with more with Justice Sandra Day O'Connor.

Jon Stewart
We are here with the former Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor. Justice O'Connor, you were known in your days as a moderate justice, one that was not ideological. So clearly you would not be able to be on the court today.

Sandra Day O'Connor
(laughs) I don't know. I was just a cowgirl, and they don't have too many of those around these days.

Jon Stewart
You--and you were the first--

Sandra Day O'Connor
Cowgirl!

Jon Stewart
Were they welcoming?

Sandra Day O'Connor
Actually, they were. Because there were eight of them there, and they were splitting four to four on cases. And they needed a ninth justice, male or female. So they welcomed me, it was fine. And the very first case that we discussed, the nine of us around the table. My most electric moment--

Jon Stewart
So you sit around the table--

Sandra Day O'Connor
Nine, around a rectangular table. And they start with the Chief Justice and then the most senior associate, around down to the junior justice--that was me, for about six years. And the very first case came to me, four to four.

Jon Stewart
Wow.

Sandra Day O'Connor
Wow.

Jon Stewart
And it was your first?

Sandra Day O'Connor
And that happened often.

Jon Stewart
As the swing justice, were you like Ohio in an election?

Sandra Day O'Connor
Did you--we don't use that word, "swing." I mean, come on, [makes noise of swinging back and forth].

Jon Stewart
No, that's not.

Sandra Day O'Connor
No. No no.

Jon Stewart
As the most principled justice--

Sandra Day O'Connor
There you go. Much better, much better. He's a fast learner.

Jon Stewart
Would they, would they--thank you! Not really, I've been on this thing for 10 years, not at all.

Would they curry your favor? Would people, would Scalia come by and be like, "Do you need help with that?"

Sandra Day O'Connor
No, no.

Jon Stewart
"May I help you with your groceries?" Nothing. How do you maintain--you know, the Supreme Court is famous for maintaining its collegial atmosphere even amongst incredible partisan divides, incredible ideological divides. How was that--

Sandra Day O'Connor
Well, let me tell you, one of the things you have to start learning in law school is how to disagree agreeably. Because when you're on a court like that, a collegial court with an odd number of members, which they all are, you have to learn to disagree agreeably. Because you're going to be there together a long time. Many years, sometimes.

Jon Stewart
There's no back--there's no, like, "You're a jerk." Like, none of that.

Sandra Day O'Connor
None of that. None of that. Thankfully.

Jon Stewart
Was any--Bush Gore was obviously a very politically charged case. Do you feel that pressure as well? When, when a case like that comes up? Do you all talk about the political implications, or...?

Sandra Day O'Connor
Well, everyone, of course, was conscious of that. In fact, some of the television stations had big, you know, arms like you'd see in construction sites, with a camera right outside the windows of justices. And they were parked outside the Court. It was very intense, so you weren't going to miss the fact that news media was interested.

Jon Stewart
And in a situation like that, do you feel like, when it's over, do you all sit around in a room and be like, "Ah, we probably should have gone 5-4 the other--ah, you know--"

Sandra Day O'Connor
No.

Jon Stewart
"You know it should have been 7-2, I don't know what we were thinking."

Sandra Day O'Connor
No. Actually. No. You do your best and live with it.

Jon Stewart
And then you live with it. And that's, that sense of, you know what, then you move on to the, to the next day.

Sandra Day O'Connor
Exactly

Jon Stewart
Do you miss that at all, do you miss the pace of it? Are you glad that you left when you did?

Sandra Day O'Connor
Well, I was there, it was the 26th year when I stepped down, and I've been very busy since, so I haven't looked back.

Jon Stewart
Do you ever, do you ever just, in your regular life, just judge something? Just to--[inaudible] be like--

Sandra Day O'Connor
Yeah, like my, my children and grandchildren. I'm always willing to judge how they're doing and let them know.

Jon Stewart
(laughs) When they get in a little dispute and you go, "It will be your, bicycle, sir!" I can't tell you what an honor it is to have you on the show.

Sandra Day O'Connor
Thank you.

Jon Stewart
And we're great admirers of your work, and thank you so much.

Sandra Day O'Connor
Thank you. Okay.

Jon Stewart
It was delightful. And good luck with the website. The website is www.OurCourts.org. Justice Sandra Day O'Connor .