Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
It's so nice to have you both at O'Connor House. And we have two significantly political figures with us at O'Connor House today. And they're helping us celebrate Arizona's centennial. We've had 12 United States Senators from Arizona over the last hundred years. And only three of them are alive today. And we have one of them here today. And it is Senator Dennis DeConcini. And Dennis served three terms in the United States Senate. So welcome, Dennis, to O'Connor House--Senator, to O'Connor House. I must be more careful about that.

Dennis DeConcini
Thank you, Your Honor. (laughs) I'm so used to saying that because my father was a judge, as you know.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Boy, he was on the Arizona Supreme Court, isn't that right?

Dennis DeConcini
Excuse me for going off the subject, but I always say, you know, in my house, you always addressed your father, "Your Honor."

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Yes. Good. Good. And Congressman John Shadegg is also here with us today. He served eight terms in the House of Representatives. And you're still there, isn't that right?

John Shadegg
No, I retired at the beginning of this term.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
And you were replaced.

John Shadegg
I was replaced.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Nobody can replace you, but somebody holds the office.

John Shadegg
Somebody holds my seat.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Okay. Well, we welcome you to O'Connor House today.

John Shadegg
It's a pleasure to be here.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
And both of you come from politically active families. You weren't the first, in either case, in your families to be interested in Arizona's political life. So tell me how you got started and what person in your family stimulated you? Was it both, or one?

Dennis DeConcini
It was both, you know, I grew up in a political family. My father was very active, ran Governor Osborn's campaign, he ran three times before he got elected [in 1940]. And as a result of that, we talked politics all the time at the table. My mother started the League of Women Voters in Tucson, used to drag my older brother Dino and I down there to these meetings. And you're saying, "What are we doing down here?" you know. What's this all about, women want to have more say? My mother had a lot of say at our house. So we just grew up in it. And as life progressed, we talked a lot about government, not just politics, but about service. My father served as a superior court judge and Attorney General and a Supreme Court Judge, as you mentioned, and so I grew up that way. And I always knew I was going to run for office, but I never knew which one except I had a feeling that Attorney General would really be something I'd like to do.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Of the state.

Dennis DeConcini
Of the state. Particularly after I got out of law school, because my father was Attorney General.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Now you went to University of Arizona, and to law school at the University of Arizona.

Dennis DeConcini
I did. When the time came, my father was a great inspiration, as was Governor Raul Castro. I ran his campaign, his second campaign that he won [in 1974]. And they encouraged me to run for the Senate.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
And so that was your first political office in Arizona.

Dennis DeConcini
No, I was County Attorney at the time, of Pima County.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
County Attorney first.

Dennis DeConcini
And Governor Castro--the legislature at the time, which was controlled by the Republicans, Burton Barr and great people like that, I got along with them real well. And the governor got along with them respectably even though they were different parties. And they passed a significant bill creating the drug strike force for Arizona. And he appointed me to run that in addition to being Pima County, and that was really exciting to get involved.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Well that was a major effort.

Dennis DeConcini
Yeah, to get involved with that. And to have a bipartisan support from the legislature and the governor, it was a wonderful, wonderful experience.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
And from that into the Senate campaign.

Dennis DeConcini
And then I ran for the Senate. Paul Fannin was teetering back and forth. Governor Castro and my father said, "Go ahead and run for the Senate."

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Big step.

Dennis DeConcini
Big step. Morris Udall, who was a longtime friend of my family's, couldn't decide. He was running for president against Jimmy Carter. And he couldn't decide whether to run for the Senate if Paul Fannin didn't run. Run for the House and, because then he would be the Chairman of the Interior Committee, which is very important to Arizona. Or if he won president, the nomination, of course he'd do that. And he wanted to hold all the positions. And we'd known the Udalls forever. Levi served on the Supreme Court with my father. Morris and Stewart were lawyers in my father's office next door. So you know, we grew up with the Udalls. And brilliant, brilliant political people and great representatives, but he couldn't decide. And my father and Governor Castro said, "Don't wait, just announce and run." And I did.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
And you won.

Dennis DeConcini
And, well, Ernest McFarland, who Barry Goldwater defeated, but he became a judge and the governor here, he was head of my committee for running, and Governor Castro. And, you know, it was, got real lucky.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Well, I think you did a good job. Now, what was your first attempt and how did it go?

John Shadegg
There are a lot of similarities as I listened to Dennis, Senator DeConcini, tell that story. And there are a number of similarities. He talked about there being plenty of political or philosophical discussion at the DeConcini table. We did not have to call my dad "Sir" or "Your Honor," but we did have to be up to speed on kind of the political activity of the day, the public policy issues of the day, what was being debated, both at the state capitol and in Washington. And we had lots of vigorous dinner table discussion. And you better be prepared or it was not going to be all that pleasant a meal. So in that way, I guess the DeConcini family table and the Shadegg family dinner table were very similar. My father did not serve in public office. He really began life as a writer, writing led him into what his kind of involvement in politics was, which was as a campaign manager.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
What was his first campaign?

John Shadegg
Well his first campaign was for a Maricopa County Sheriff. I believe it was Ernie Roach. My dad had kind of befriended Roach and wanted to learn some stories, actually learn crime stories. And when Roach was up for reelection [in 1946], he said, "Steve, you're a writer, would you help me run my campaign?" In those days, of course, Ernie Roach was a Democrat. Everybody was a Democrat, there was no such thing as a--

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Yes, most of them were in Arizona for--when did it shift a little to more even Republican and Democrat?

John Shadegg
Well, I don't think it was like until the late 60s, early 70s.

Dennis DeConcini
My recollection is when it, the shift was so clear, even though the registration did not shift to the majority, was when Eisenhower and Goldwater ran in '52. It was a major political revolution. And just to interrupt John for a minute, I paid a lot of attention to that race. My family was deeply involved in Ernest McFarland's campaign. And I observed his father and some other prominent Phoenicians put together a candidate who had this "clean up Phoenix from the corruption, the prostitution," all the things that were going in there. After doing that, then running for the Senate, and you know, I never forget observing that campaign. And it's a lesson that I, I met your father but I never knew him, but I had such respect for this guy and getting the Goldwater crew to put together. And of course it was a big victory. Even though the registration still was majority [Democrat].

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
And your father did that.

John Shadegg
'52 senatorial campaign. Senator Goldwater was taking on the sitting Majority Leader of the United States Senate.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
How about that?

John Shadegg
Pretty stunning.

Video Clip

Barry Goldwater
In fact, I'll never forget. I came back here one day on Central Arizona Project business, and Mac had just been made leader, Majority Leader of the Senate. And I said, "Mac, you are out of your head." I said, "You cannot carry that Truman, he's going to be too heavy an anvil around your neck. Someone's gonna beat you!" And, never dreaming for one minute that I would be the guy to try it. Because I used to go out and raise money for him, I liked him so much. Well, that's the way it went.

John Shadegg
Senator Goldwater had caught the political bug two years earlier in the governor's race, he'd flown the Republican candidate for governor all around the state,

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
The only thing he had done was for city of Phoenix, isn't that right?

John Shadegg
Yes, Barry served on the city council prior to that, and then got involved in the campaign for Governor. helped the Republican candidate, flew him around the state and really caught the bug. But to finish what I was saying earlier, while people think of my dad as always having been a Republican, he ran these sheriff's campaigns, first for Ernie Roach and then for a sheriff in Maricopa County named Cal Boies. And then ultimately Carl Hayden. He ran a campaign for Senator Hayden.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
He did.

John Shadegg
And years later, he would tell me stories about the things that he, my dad, learned from Senator Hayden in the course of that campaign. And of course in those days, the campaigns were all in the Democrat primary.

Dennis DeConcini
Yeah.

John Shadegg
Once Senator Hayden won the Democrat primary--

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
That was it.

John Shadegg
It was a done deal, it was over. But the '52 campaign was a shift where Arizona began to turn, at least nationally, to the Republican Party. Though as you referred to, the registration was not near Republican at that time. When Senator Goldwater won, it was, maybe it wasn't eight to one, but it was a heavily Democrat state. [O'CONNOR INSTITUTE NOTE: Arizona voter registration in 1952 was approximately 3-to-1 for Democrats vs. Republicans.]

Dennis DeConcini
It was heavily Democrat.

John Shadegg
No question about that.

Video Clip
Morris Udall
To get anywhere in politics, you had to be a Democrat, almost, for years and years and decades. But by about 1952, it all came together. And there was a, Barry had helped Howard Pyle run for governor two years earlier. And busted that rule, that Republicans couldn't be governor in Arizona. And two years later, he got the crazy idea of running against the Majority Leader of the United States Senate, Ernest McFarland. And he was trying to recruit a ticket so he'd be a little bit stronger and have some company in this uphill, crazy thing that he was doing. And then he called, in Mesa there was a young lawyer named John Rhodes. And he said, "John, why don't you run for Congress?" John said, "Hell, I don't want to go to Congress." And Barry said, "Don't worry, you won't." (crowd laughs) But he did. And he defeated a Democrat who was Chairman of the Interior Committee. A terrible thing to do.

John Shadegg
That was kind of the beginning of my father's professional career in politics, managing campaigns, and riding in the political arena.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
What was your first step?

John Shadegg
My first step came many, many years later. Actually, it came when Jon Kyl had won a seat in the US Senate. I had made a decision that, I guess going back to about 1984, somewhere in there, I decided that I wanted to work on a campaign. I'd worked on a number of political campaigns as a manager with my dad, kind of helping him. We did, I did campaigns in Utah and Idaho and in Arizona, worked on all of those in college and in law school and had worked on campaigns in grade school and high school as a kid growing up. But I kind of reached a decision, did I want to continue managing campaigns, in which case they'd say, "Oh, yeah, Steve Shadegg was a campaign manager, John Shadegg is a campaign manager." And I began to actually worry—and some women will, can relate to this—you know, if you keep running campaigns, they'll say, "Always a campaign manager, never a candidate," kind of like women worry about, "Always a bridesmaid, never the bride." And so I went to Colorado, I ran a campaign there for a young man who was trying to move from the state legislature to the US House. He was successful, and I came back to Arizona and decided I would never run a campaign for money again, I would give my services away for free and help people, and I did help Jon Kyl in his first race, but I would not accept pay for it because I wanted to break that image of a campaign manager.

And so in 1994, Senator, then-Congressman Kyl was going to run for the United States Senate. I was pretty certain of that. And I actually announced for his seat in a letter to the Republican precinct committeemen, before he made his announcement that he was going to run for the Senate. And I wrote and said, look, if Senator Kyl, if Congressman Kyl runs for the United States Senate, I will be a candidate for his seat. And that was my first entry into elected office. I was not the favored candidate, the favored candidate was picked kind of by the Phoenix 40 and heavily supported by them, supposed to win, backed by this paper, heavily favored. We all remember John Colby, Colby wrote that my opponent was the 800-pound gorilla in the race, and that nobody was going to beat him. Well, you know, sometimes politics don't work out that way.

Dennis DeConcini
That's right.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Was the race close?

John Shadegg
In the end, the 800-pound gorilla finished third.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Oh my word.

Dennis DeConcini
Is that right? That's so interesting.

John Shadegg
Absolutely. And interestingly, the second-place finisher was Trent Franks, now in our delegation, and he and I have become friends since then. I won the race in '94, Trent went, took Bob Stump's seat a number of years later, and we have a great friendship. But I finished first with those three.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
How interesting. I served in the legislature here with Bob Stump. He was on the Democratic side,

Dennis DeConcini
I knew Bob's family forever. My father, when he was on the Supreme Court, was a friend of Jesse Stump, who was in the legislature. They used to have lunch together. Small world.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
That's interesting.

Dennis DeConcini
And then, you know, if I can, just to mention, you know, my mother's family came from Graham County. A large Mormon family over where your family is.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Yes, we were one step further, in Greenlee County.

Dennis DeConcini
In Greenlee County, right. We used to go to Greenlee County, and my aunt was the chairman of the Republican county party.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
In Graham County? Is that right?

Dennis DeConcini
There weren't very many Republicans.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
No, very few.

Dennis DeConcini
And Dino and I spent summers on the farm there with the Claridges and the Bamas and all those people.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Oh how fun.

Dennis DeConcini
And when, you know, and Goldwater, we'll get into this later, but he liked my aunt and knew her so well, her name was Zola Claridge, that he just, I think every time he saw me, he saw my aunt. He wanted to know Aunt Zola.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
He wanted to know about Zola. Good.

Video clip

Barry Goldwater
Our early settlers all came from the South. And they were all very, very conservative Democrats. So the state actually never even, I don't think they had Republicans in there till after we became a state, and then they were hard to find. I learned that the first time I ran for public office. I remember going to Greenlee County. We had 10 Republicans in the whole county. And by God, I finally carried that county.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
You're still serving in the Congress.

John Shadegg
No, I finished last January.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
You finished, and it's over, and are you gonna try to go back, or have you had it?

John Shadegg
I guess with him sitting here I ought to confess this, the only place I'd go back would be to the Senate. I've been there, done that in the US House, one out of 435. The Senate is still the most exclusive club in the world, as I think you probably know, from having been confirmed there.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
It is.

John Shadegg
And so it holds some interest for me, but we'll see if those cards play out. I did want to make a comment about kind of Arizona political history. The O'Connor House is focused on discourse, civil discourse. And one of the early lessons I learned on, about civil discourse came actually from Carl Hayden. And it's a part of Arizona history. And I think it's something that Arizonans and Arizona political leaders might learn from.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
What did he say?

John Shadegg
Well, the story goes, and my dad told me this story years after, maybe even after Senator Hayden had passed, I told you he managed a campaign for Senator Hayden. Hayden was up for reelection. In the preceding term, two very well connected, and if I said their names, prominent business leaders, you'd recognize them in Arizona, had gone back to him in the Senate in the preceding term and said, Senator Hayden, we need this favor. We need you to do this. Well, Senator Hayden thought it was not the right thing to do. And so he had the courage. These were fellow Democrats, powerful people in the Phoenix business community. And he said, "No, I'm not going to do it." Well, they became very upset with him. So they went out and they recruited a candidate to run against Senator Hayden in the Democrat primary. This was the primary my dad was hired to manage Senator Hayden's campaign.

So for months, my dad managed that campaign, and his goal was to get Senator Hayden reelected. And these two individuals, he knew had put, my dad knew had put the candidate into the race. And they were vigorously trying to beat Senator Hayden. And so this was mortal combat, this was very important. Well, the day of the election night, primary election night, Senator Hayden wins, and he says to my dad, "Steve, what are you doing tomorrow?" And my dad said, "Well, I'm gonna begin boxing up the campaign and closing things up." And Senator Hayden said, "Well, why don't you meet me over at the Westwood Ho hotel at the Press Club for lunch." So my dad did that, and he said, "I'd be honored to do that, Senator."

And so he walks in, and he sits down, and the Senator's sitting here, and he says, "Senator, what have you been doing this morning?" And the Senator says, "Well, I've had a great morning, Steve. First thing I did is I went over and saw," and he names one of the two guys that had put the candidate into the race against him. "And we had a great chat, and everything was wonderful." My dad was just shocked, I mean his face went ashen, stunned.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Oh my.

John Shadegg
And then without even breaking stride, Senator Hayden can see this reaction on my dad's face, he says, "And then I went over to the Title and Trust building and dropped in on," and he names the second individual.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
The other man.

John Shadegg
And my dad's now just completely stunned. The chin hits the table.

Dennis DeConcini
Great story.

John Shadegg
He's just blown away by this, is stunned. And Senator Hayden can see that on his face, and Senator Hayden says to my dad, "Steve, never give your enemies any more reason to go on hating you than they already have." And the message really was, that's a harsh way to say it, but what he was really saying is, you know, this is a business in which you need to communicate. And they had a point they wanted to make, they were unhappy, but I've now been reelected, and I need to work with them going forward, so I think—

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
So continue the dialogue.

John Shadegg
So, continue the dialogue. Civil discourse, the O'Connor House, one of the things it's dedicated to.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Exactly. It does matter. And how have you experienced that in your years in the Congress, in terms of discourse? Does it help to yell and scream or act up, or what gets the work done?

John Shadegg
Well, if you're on cable TV, then you get some reward for yelling and screaming, but nothing gets done that's productive. All you do is sell cable TV time and cable TV ads. What you have to be willing to do if you want to make progress and policy is sit down, have a respect for the other views, have respect for the other individuals and the perspectives they come from, and then work toward a solution.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Exactly.

John Shadegg
And interestingly, I think at least in Washington, lots gets done at the kind of the day-to-day grist—and I'd be interested if Senator DeConcini agrees with this—without any disagreement at all. They sit down and solve relatively small problems. When you get to the big issues that philosophically divide us, that becomes quite a bit more difficult. But still, being willing to talk is important. I think we're right now in the shadow of the so-called "Super Committee." And it seems to me, every comment I heard by a member of the Super Committee about someone else on the committee, one of their colleagues on the other side, was complimentary.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Yes. So they weren't fighting each other at that time.

John Shadegg
It wasn't a matter of personal vendetta or dislike.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Senator DeConcini, you tell me your reaction to this discussion.

Dennis DeConcini
My best example of that is when I was sworn into the Senate, after my family had been deeply involved in campaigns against Barry Goldwater. My father knew Barry Goldwater, liked him and respected him. So he had every reason to give me a cold shoulder, and I was expecting that. I said, you know, this was asking too much. Well, he knew my family, my wife's family, and he couldn't have been nicer. And I remember that so well.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
That's good.

Dennis DeConcini
He always called me "Denny." And he said, "You come on over to my office." So I went over there after we were sworn in. He says, "Now Denny," he says, "we're gonna disagree on a lot of stuff, just because we're Democrat, Republican. But," he says, "you know, we're not going to disagree on anything in Arizona." He said, "I followed your campaign."

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
That's great.

Dennis DeConcini
He made a very positive statement after I was elected. And then we we did disagree on many things. You know, we didn't vote the same way. But every time he ran, and every time I ran, we had an understanding that we would endorse our party's candidate, and that would be all. And when Bill Schulz ran against him [in 1980], the millionaire apartment owner here—

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Yes, I remember that.

Dennis DeConcini
Spent, I don't know, four or five million dollars of his own money, which was a lot of money in those days.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
A lot of money.

Dennis DeConcini
They asked me to do an ad, you know, critical of the Senator. And I said, "I can't do that." And I never forget, he called me up the day after the election. He said, "Denny, thank you. I know what you didn't do."

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Oh that's great. That's a good story.

Dennis DeConcini
Yeah. And I never forget that story. He was a marvelous man because he had high principles. And far more to the right than I was. But, you know, some of his good friends were [Sens.] Ted Kennedy and Russell Long and John Steniss, who came from different political backgrounds. And then as Goldwater progressed, he, in my opinion, he kind of changed views. I don't know if it was just, as you get older you sometimes do that. But he just became more and more, in my opinion, like for gay rights and some hot issues. And he took another look at them, you know, and he didn't just stay, stay the line. And you know, I served with Orrin Hatch and Malcolm Wallop. We all came in the same time. And they're so—

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
A little tougher line.

Dennis DeConcini
So dedicated to their principle, but they know how to be civil about it. You could just sit down and you talk to them. And as John said, the little issues are not the big deal. It's the constituencies on these big issues that make you dig in. But we didn't yell.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Right. Do you think there's less civility today than there was? I think so.

Dennis DeConcini
Oh gosh, there's no question about it. There's no question. Up until January, I was a registered lobbyist. And I could see most Senators because I knew most of them. And recently, I was back there seeing Senator Grassley about something, not lobbying, just something personal. And we sat there in his office after we talked about it, and we talked about the civility or the non-civility. He said, "It is just mean-spirited here, Dennis. From both sides," he says.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
I think it's true at the state level, too. And what can we do about it? What should we be doing about it?

John Shadegg
Well, I think there are a number of things we can do. I think it begins with the people that we encourage to run and the climate that we create, the climate candidates have to live in. If you make that climate so bitter and so ugly because the paper's willing to attack them, or their opponents are willing to attack them viciously, there's no aspect of their life in which they can have any degree of privacy, then that, I think, causes people not to want to make the sacrifice of running.

I think there are two things about Barry Goldwater that were consistent all along and never changed. And one was his respect for and love of Arizona, which he was taught by Mun.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Very genuine.

John Shadegg
Absolutely. Mun, his mother—his father was a haberdasher and fairly stiff, and formal. Three-piece suit every day, off to work. But Mun was the spunky one in the family. She taught Bob and Barry to play golf. She taught Bob and Barry to hunt and shoot. She took Bob and Barry camping all over the state of Arizona. And so I think he had this deep love of Arizona reflected in Senator DeConcini's comment where Senator Goldwater welcomes him in and says, "By the way, we may disagree on philosophical issues governing the nation, but we're not going to disagree on Arizona," because loyalty to Arizona was very important to him. And sometimes I think today's politicians here in Arizona, especially if they come from somewhere else, don't have that deep Arizona respect.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
I want to know what each of you would tell me to celebrate, look forward or look backward at Arizona's first hundred years and look forward to what we should do. Give me a thought or two on the occasion that brings us together.

John Shadegg
Well, my answer would be, "Be proud of Arizona and its history." We have had a much larger impact on the nation and therefore on the world than a small little Western state would deserve. How many Arizonans have run for president, four? Four in our lifetimes. Pretty impressive.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
That is amazing.

John Shadegg
I believe Arizona has always had a larger than deserved or larger than life impact on the national scene. We've had tremendous leaders beginning with Carl Hayden.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
We have.

John Shadegg
Senator Goldwater himself. The Udall brothers. We've had leaders that have exceeded what you would expect from a small little Western state.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
We have. We've had great leaders.

John Shadegg
Not only yourself on the Supreme Court as the first woman justice, but also Justice Rehnquist, from a tiny little state.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Yes. Chief Justice Rehnquist as it turned out.

John Shadegg
Chief Justice. Absolutely.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Isn't that interesting? And to have two members of the Supreme Court from Arizona at the same time—

John Shadegg
Pretty stunning.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Is very surprising, particularly for a smaller state. And you know, when I was nominated for the Court, it was a huge surprise to the nation. But it was an even bigger surprise to the nominee, me!

Video Clip
Ronald Reagan
I will send to the Senate the nomination of Judge Sandra Day O'Connor of Arizona Court of Appeals for confirmation as an Associate Justice of the United States Supreme Court. And I have long believed that the time has come for the highest court in our land to include not only distinguished men but distinguished women as well.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
When it happened, Senator DeConcini stepped in immediately with good comments and saying what a good idea, and "I'm pleased and happy about it." And that made such a difference. Here he was holding office from Arizona as a Democrat in the Senate.

Dennis DeConcini
Right.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
And for him to do that made a difference. And what it did, in effect, was at the time of the hearings in the Senate, it just made it easier. It was not a contentious hearing, thank goodness.

John Shadegg
He had been shown kindness by Senator Goldwater.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Thank you for that.

Dennis DeConcini
Well thank you, it was a privilege to do it. But even before that, when Rehnquist was nominated, I was on the Judiciary Committee. That was a different situation.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
It was tough.

Dennis DeConcini
I stuck up for him and I voted for him.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Yeah. But it was hard.

Dennis DeConcini
The Democrats wanted to defeat him. The reason: I knew him vaguely through my father. My father used to tell me what a tremendous lawyer he was.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
He was a marvelous lawyer. He was gifted. And your father, the judge, would have known.

Dennis DeConcini
Yeah, my father knew that. So I had great respect, even though I wasn't close to him. And then I looked at all this stuff that the Democrats were doing, it was not...And so, when I wrote my letter to the Republic, supporting you—other people had done a lot more—I got a lot of press out of it! And obviously, so when you do that, they're saying, "Man, how smart are you?" You know. So I went to see Barry Goldwater about it. And he says, "Denny, that's a great idea, I'm going to call the president." And while I'm sitting there, he tries to get Judy Eisenhower to get the president online. He couldn't do it. He left a message later that day, he said, "I talked to him, he's gonna, they're going to interview her."

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Good.

Dennis DeConcini
And then when when you came back, you made such an impression. As you remember, I took you around to every Democratic Senate, because that's where I was afraid. We were in the majority.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Exactly.

Dennis DeConcini
And you made such an impression. I mean, Ted Kennedy—

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
I don't know about that.

Dennis DeConcini
Oh you did. You did. Ted Kennedy voted for you. He was stronger for you than Strom Thurmond was!

Video Clip

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
I'm absolutely overjoyed with the expression of support from the Senate. And my hope is that 10 years from now after I've been across the street at work for a while, that they will all feel glad that they gave me the wonderful vote they did today.

Dennis DeConcini
The personal touch is so important.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
It is.

Dennis DeConcini
You get to see somebody, you get to talk to somebody. And now, going back to about the civility or non-civility today. To carry on, I also saw [Sen.] Tom Harkin, a very liberal democrat who I've known forever, we're good friends, I've done fundraisers for him. I did a fundraiser for [Sen. Orrin] Hatch, and I did one for [Sen. Chuck] Grassley. Those days are pretty much gone, according them.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
It's so sad.

Dennis DeConcini
And they each say it's so bitter and mean-spirited on both sides.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
All right now, what can we do to enhance or improve the level of civility, both at the state level and the national level? Can we do anything?

John Shadegg
I do think we can. But most people think it's reforms that we can make now. Reforms that we would impose on people already in office. I have a kind of different take of it. I think it begins with the character of the people that you encourage to run or that ultimately decide to run. Senator DeConcini mentioned that Barry Goldwater was a hardcore conservative in his philosophical beliefs, and they were decidedly conservative. He also mentioned that over time, at least after Senator Goldwater left office, he softened in some of those views. I think all people tend to do that at some point in their life. But I think the key to Senator Goldwater was what a fundamentally decent human being he was. And very few people know that.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Regardless of the views. You can still be civil and be—

John Shadegg
And believe in fundamental fairness, right. Some people know, many don't remember, that, for example, on the issue of race relations, Senator Goldwater was one of the first to integrate the Arizona Air National Guard, insisted on equality. Very aggressively in support of equality on civil rights issues at the Phoenix City Council when he served there. But I think it even goes deeper than that, to who you are as a person.

When Baron Goldwater passed away, Barry, a U of A student, as were you and as was I, was called home for the funeral. The family sits down afterward and they have to make a decision: Who's going to run the store? And the decision is made that because Bob has been accepted to Stanford, and Barry is only at the University of Arizona, Barry will come home and run the store. And so it's decided, and Barry does. The interesting thing is, Barry gets bored running the store. And after four or five months, he decides he's going to spend the time doing what we all know he did. Which is, he'd come to the store early in the morning, then go out to Sky harbor, which he had helped start, jump in his plane and fly out and take the now-famous photographs of Navajo and Hopi—

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
And take his camera.

John Shadegg
And take his camera. Well, years later, I got to meet the comptroller of the store. Turns out, the family gets together for the first kind of family business meeting after a year with Barry running the store. And this gentleman who was the comptroller, William Softley, passes out papers which explained to each member of the family what their share of the store profit for that year is. Barry is sitting there, and Bill Softley hands him his. And Barry looks at it and immediately says, "Bill, how come my numbers are in parentheses?" And he says, "Well, Barry, do you remember when you used to come in the store in the morning, and you'd leave me a little piece of the paper torn out with a note to send a check to some family?" And Barry said, "What does that have to do with this question? Why are my numbers in parentheses?" He said, "Well Barry, you did that every day just about. You'd always leave me a little piece of paper and it would say that this family had suffered a tragedy, their house had burned down, or that someone in the family had become sick, and they were financially distraught. And you always said, 'Send them a check.'" And Barry then by now is pretty angry, he says, "What does that have to do with, why are my numbers in parentheses?" And Bill Softley turns to Barry and says, "Well Barry, the store doesn't owe you money. You owe the store money." Because he had given away so much money.

Dennis DeConcini
That's a wonderful story.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Oh my. That's a great story. I've never heard that one.

John Shadegg
We need in this nation to motivate people with that kind of giving spirit, regardless of whether they're as hard left as Tom Harkin, and he's pretty hard left, or as hard right as Barry Goldwater or John Shadegg. You need to have decent human beings who care about their fellow human beings and who are willing to listen.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
But that's a good story. But do you have anything to add on how we can turn the tide?

Dennis DeConcini
Yes. You know, I agree with the congressman. I think John does, you've got to encourage people to run. And there's a fundamental problem here that the political system is adjusting to, I hope. And that is that the instant cable-vision, particularly, or television, being able to target any candidate or any office holder immediately. Now, that's not going to change.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
No, it isn't.

Dennis DeConcini
Because it's effective.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
No, that's right.

Dennis DeConcini
But you have to get people interested in a young age, usually. Older one, older citizens, too. But if you can encourage it. You know, this civility issue isn't talked a lot about.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
But we want to, at O'Connor House. We want to talk about it a lot.

Dennis DeConcini
We want to. Yes. It's necessary. And we need to be talking about it in our universities and in our high schools.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Exactly

Dennis DeConcini
Now, how do you do that? I'm not sure, but it seems to me how you do that is, you bring in teachers in high schools, some students, or you go to them with this civility. Because you'd listen—

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
And encourage them to build it in.

Dennis DeConcini
Yeah, you listen to the stories. I've seen Barry Goldwater on the floor really go after some bill that Ted Kennedy is offering, and vice versa. And Jake Javits, who was a Republican, was doing something on foreign aid. And I had an amendment to reduce it, because I thought it was too much. Barry Goldwater comes over from his office, sides with me, and really goes after Jake Javits.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Interesting.

Dennis DeConcini
Yeah, and when the vote came, it passed. When I passed, he came over and said to me, "Well done, Denny." I mean, you know. And then you know what I saw him do? He went over and talked to Javitz.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Good. See that was the thing.

Dennis DeConcini
He slapped him on the back, and Javits was such a friendly guy, you know. And I said, that, you know, those things made a big impression to me.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
That's good.

Dennis DeConcini
And that's what we need to instill, or attempt to instill, in the younger people is the easier way to do it.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
We do, and I hope we can help do that.

Dennis DeConcini
You can help, and you are helping.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Now looking back on your career in the legislative branch, what do you think is the most important thing that you worked on? Do you look back and say, "Well, that's something I really cared about, and I'm proud of."

John Shadegg
I certainly have areas that I look back and view in that way. For me, health care reform, trying to give people control of their own healthcare rather than have their employer control their healthcare or having the government control their healthcare. I also felt like I tried to work hard on energy. But none of those, I think, are as important in the context of this conversation as trying to encourage cooperation, common understanding, view each other with respect. One of the things you, and I hate to return to this theme, but it's so important. One of the things I, because again, we keep thinking we can put external strictures on the political system and fix it that way.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
It's hard.

John Shadegg
I think it begins with maybe encouraging judgment. We've, here in Arizona, tried a number of reforms. We tried radical campaign spending limits for our state legislature. And we put those in place and thought, "Well, that will get rid of this mean discourse."

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
It didn't.

John Shadegg
And it didn't. We put in place, then, public financing. And we said, "Public financing, maybe that way we'll get a better quality of people."

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
And that's troubling.

John Shadegg
I think it's, I'm going to be controversial here and say I think it's had the opposite effect. I think in the days, and you talked about this earlier and you served with some of them, of Burton Barr and Stan Turley and a number of others.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Bill Jacquin.

John Shadegg
Bill Jacquin.

Dennis DeConcini
Pritzloff.

John Shadegg
John Pritzloff. Let's talk on the other side of the aisle.

Dennis DeConcini
Harold Giss.

John Shadegg
Harold Giss. Al Gutierrez. And Art Hamilton.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Yes.

John Shadegg
In the days when those people were elected, our state leaders, our state legislators, they had to go and convince the business people in town or the community leaders in town, whether it was business people or others, that they had a vision for Arizona that was a positive vision, and that they were articulate, and that they were, they had some life's experience and some judgment and would listen to the other side. I'm not certain that some of the reforms we've enacted, external reforms, haven't made it harder for people of good judgment to run or made it easier for people who are in a kind of less respectful...If anybody can run and go get that public money, then maybe we don't have the people with the same—

Dennis DeConcini
That's an interesting perspective. But you know, I'm not sure it's made it worse. It certainly hasn't made it any better. There's no question it's not getting better. But you know, I remember when I was in the Senate, I had a lot of Republican support. I couldn't have gotten elected without Republicans.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Yeah, you did have a lot.

Dennis DeConcini
And you know some of them, they're good friends.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
I do.

Dennis DeConcini
And I would ask them, "Why don't you run for the House of Representatives?" I mean, they weren't 50, 60 years old, they were in their 40s. And they were running businesses, bankers, and what have you.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
They didn't want to give everything up.

Dennis DeConcini
Exactly. They said, "Dennis, why would I do this and expose myself and my family"—

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
They could see how difficult it is, to be criticized by the press, day in and day out.

Dennis DeConcini
Right. Yeah, to every...Every stock I've ever owned. Every date I ever had in college. It was, I thought, "Gee, there's something wrong here, there really is."

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
I know. Well now, do you look back and say there's one area or thing you did that matters most to you?

Dennis DeConcini
I concentrated on a legacy of some great Arizonans. Hayden, Fannin, Goldwater, the Udall brothers, on the Central Arizona Project. And that never left my mind in Arizona.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Yes. It was incredible, we worked so hard to get it.

Dennis DeConcini
We did, and we had leaders—

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
And it turned on water, because we don't have much.

Dennis DeConcini
That's right. And it turned on water in the Supreme Court case. And some of the prominent lawyers that were, Mark Wilmer, there's a wonderful book on Mark Wilmer's arguing that case, the California case [Arizona v. California]. And you know, that's what I did, and my staff devoted it on that. And it was set up. Now, that wasn't an earmark that is treasonous today. That was an authorization that Carl Hayden got Lyndon Johnson to sign.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
But it was a critically important thing, the Central Arizona Project.

Dennis DeConcini
And it was. And Goldwater—

John Shadegg
And it was carrying on a great tradition. I mean, we began with the Roosevelt Dam and the whole Salt River Project.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Together.

Dennis DeConcini
The Salt River Project. Exactly.

John Shadegg
And if Arizona hadn't been farsighted on water in those early days, we could not have had the growth we've had. So, carrying on with the CAP was vitally important.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
But people from both parties agreed on that.

Dennis DeConcini
And when I came back there, there was a hostility by the administration, I'm sorry to say, which was Jimmy Carter.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Oh, dear.

Dennis DeConcini
A hostility towards water projects. Tennessee Valley and the Central Arizona Project. And his budget took the money out. And I earmarked—

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
And it had to go back in.

Dennis DeConcini
I earmarked it back in, and Barry Goldwater played a major role even though he wasn't on the Appropriation Committee. Because he knew Mark Hatfield.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
That's good.

Dennis DeConcini
And he knew the Republican senators. And they didn't know much about the Central Arizona Project, it was going along. And he went to them and said, "This is really important." So I spent probably an inordinate amount of time like that. I did a lot of other things.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
But see, that was critical to this state.

Dennis DeConcini
But to, me to this state, the most important thing are these water projects.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
That was critical.

Dennis DeConcini
And we've got to continue this, we cannot get separated from the importance of water.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Good. That's great.

John Shadegg
And weren't you willing to say, and correct me if I'm wrong, "Look, Arizona believes in this so much that unlike a lot of other water projects, we're willing to pay it back."

Dennis DeConcini
That's right.

John Shadegg
I mean, Salt River Project was not, "Give us the money."

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
We'll pay it back.

John Shadegg
That's right. The farmers in town, every acre—

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
And in effect—

John Shadegg
And many Arizonans don't know this, but every single acre in this valley was pledged to the federal government with a mortgage on it to repay the money for the Salt River Project.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
And that's what's been happening.

John Shadegg
Which we ultimately did. And then the CAP was structured the same way, with a payback.

Dennis DeConcini
That's right.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Which is great.

John Shadegg
We weren't just saying, "Give us your money." We were saying, "Loan us the capital, we'll do these things, which will be great, but we're willing to pay it back."

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
But members of both parties worked on it.

Dennis DeConcini
Absolutely.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
I just think that we Arizona citizens can be so grateful for that and can look back with some pride.

Dennis DeConcini
We don't have that galvanizing water project as a—

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
There isn't an issue right now, but there will be.

Dennis DeConcini
That's right.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
And so how we're going to do it I don't know, maybe we can galvanize around an energy source for a dry state.

Dennis DeConcini
Yeah, I hope so. One of the other things that I spent a lot of time on, as did Senator Goldwater, and that was our Native Americans. The poverty they lived in if you went there. And you've been there, and you've been to these. It was deplorable. And that's something I earmarked money.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
And we can still work on that.

Dennis DeConcini
And I always got Goldwater to talk to the Republicans on the Appropriations Committee. He would do anything—even earmarks, John—to help Native Americans.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
He did, because he photographed them, he was out there, he was seeing it.

John Shadegg
He had a deep love. It came from Mun.

Dennis DeConcini
He had a deep love, exactly. And I would go talk to him about, "We've got to do something about San Carlos." And he said, "Oh yeah, San Carlos," he'd start telling me history.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
That's good.

John Shadegg
I'm gonna tell one other quick Goldwater story.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Alright.

John Shadegg
In 1964, you asked how I got involved in politics, the first time I ever went to San Francisco was to go there to the Cal Palace for the nomination of Barry Goldwater. My dad had worked on the presidential campaign. Mun Goldwater, now in her 80s, is sitting in the family box on the night Senator Goldwater is nominated by the Republicans. And this celebration starts in the whole place, and the confetti starts to come down. And she turns to the person next to her and says, "What's going on?" And the individual says, "Well, they just nominated Barry to be the Republican nominee for President of the United States." And Mun goes silent for a moment and then turns and says, "They got the wrong one. Bob's a lot smarter." Because remember, Bob had gone to Stanford. Barry was with you and I at the U of A, not quite at the same time.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Is that right? That's so funny. That's just great, that's a funny story.

John Shadegg
But you know, this should be a business that honorable people can participate in. We ought to not be tearing down politicians. They're all humans, they make mistakes. But they are, most, almost all of them, you know, trying to do the right thing for the good of the country as they see it.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
That's what matters to us.

John Shadegg
And so if we can continue to push that, then I think there's lots of hope for a great state like of Arizona and for a great nation.

Dennis DeConcini
I think the respect and the history of Arizona is vital and so important, as John pointed out. And in this area of moving ahead, you know, I was, I would like to think I always look at the glass half full, be as optimistic as you can. In today's world, it's easy to be pessimistic. Oh, my God, you know, what's happened to the United States? What's happening to Arizona with the political turmoil and all the things and the lawsuits and the immigration issue and all these things. So to me, civility starts with respect of individuals. And that goes also to political office holders.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
It certainly does.

Dennis DeConcini
I was no fan of the [Arizona] Senator Pearce that got recalled. Disagreed with him, wrote a op ed piece opposing what he was doing on immigration. But I respect the man as a human being who had the wrong, in my opinion, direction. But he had a public office. And so, you have to have a respect for the office holders. Now that doesn't mean you don't go out and work against them and get out of it. And sometimes it gets tough and nasty, and that's our political system. But you have to have respect for the entities of our government. And that, to me, is missing. It's just so easy not to think about that. I think about it when I disagree with somebody on the national level or something else. Now, the Republican primary for president is just, to me, entertainment for, as a Democrat, you know. But I respect all those people. You know? I disagree so wholeheartedly with them. But these people are leaders.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
The office.

Dennis DeConcini
The office that they're seeking, and many of them have held, is important.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Is important. Alright. Now, I've been working on education of young people.

Dennis DeConcini
I know you have.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Half the states no longer make civics and government a requirement. Barely one third of Americans can even name the three branches of government, much less say what they do. We are at a low ebb on that. And my effort currently is spent on trying to educate young people about how our government is structured, how it works and how they can be part of it. You've both spent lifetimes in public service, and I have, too, in a way. Now, part of that, for me has been feeling that I'm obligated to vote every time there's an election. And I well remember going to my polling place at a school the year that Barry Goldwater ran for president. And I got over there with my husband, John, to vote and stand in line. It was a long line. We didn't have paper ballots so you could vote ahead. And in line ahead of me were Barry and Peggy Goldwater. And they were standing in line waiting to vote in the election where his name was on for President. And I don't, I've always remembered that. And it's so important to vote. Now what can, we've made it easier today. There's no excuse for not going.

Dennis DeConcini
I think the problem, this is my observation, is the candidates need to speak to the issues in their neighborhoods or their state or what have you. In this last city election, the Hispanic vote doubled because two Hispanic Latino candidates were running, and they increased the outcome. Well, you know, there aren't a lot of Italian-Americans.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Not too many.

Dennis DeConcini
But there are a lot of Americans, all of us here, that have some interest in education, in health care. And those need to be brought to the people saying, "That's why you need to vote." And with the mass media that we have in our campaigns, too much of it is obviously spent on negative campaigns and not delivering a message.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
A lot of it is. How do we get people to the polls? How do we be sure they vote?

John Shadegg
Well, what you're doing with with our young people, encouraging schools to teach civics. I mean, it's an incredible gift that we were given by the founders of this country that now the world embraces. I mean, we've just gone through the Arab Spring, and then most of that it's been an expression by people that say, "We ought to have a voice"—

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
We need a voice.

John Shadegg
In our government. I was once on a CODEL in Saudi Arabia. We were on a bus driving into Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. And one of the young people, a staffer for a congressman, said, "Well, if they [women] can't drive, can they vote?" And the bus fell silent. And the person from the American Embassy finally said, "Vote on what? There are no elections in Saudi Arabia."

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Exactly.

John Shadegg
And you know, we take it for granted at our peril—

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
That everybody has elections.

John Shadegg
That's right. And as Americans, we sit back and say, "Well, you know, every country around the world is governed by democracy." And yet it's not.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Not yet.

John Shadegg
And so, people need to focus on that. And what you're doing, or what the O'Connor House is doing, in encouraging teaching of civics, and encouraging people to vote, this is a unique opportunity. And that every time you pass it up, you're doing a disservice. By not voting, you're voting.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Well, I hope we can encourage it. Now it's all paper ballots so, ahead of time, and it makes it very different. I can remember trying to round up neighbors and people in nursing homes and everything to go vote. That doesn't happen now.

Dennis DeConcini
I did the same thing, door to door.

John Shadegg
It changes the turnout, that's right.

Dennis DeConcini
I just agree so much with Congressman Shadegg that what you're doing here is really the Lord's work in the sense of civility, but also civic involvement.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
I hope so.

Dennis DeConcini
And knowing something about your government. And God bless you for doing it.

John Shadegg
They're going to be affected one way or the other, they might as well get involved and vote and help to shape our future.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Yes, exactly.

John Shadegg
Because we're lucky. In all the world, not many people get to do that.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
That's right.

Dennis DeConcini
You are setting an example, to me, of, like you have in your whole life, of being active. Whatever your age, your position, or the office, you've always taken a role of trying to advance it. And that, to me, is a wonderful example. It's been an example to me with you, with my father, with his father, and with people like that. That's important, and you know, the education of what government is—

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Exactly.

Dennis DeConcini
I didn't realize the figures were so deplorable.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
No, they are deplorable. Well now listen, I want to thank you both. And you each had such good stories to tell. And I hope these are preserved in ways that can be shared with all Arizonans, now and in the future. You've both been really important parts of Arizona. Thanks for being here.

John Shadegg
Thank you so much for having us.

Dennis DeConcini
Thank you for having us, thank you, John.