Host
Justice O'Connor, what do you think the average reader will be most surprised to learn from your new book, Out of Order: Stories from the History of the Supreme Court?

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Oh, it's hard to say. I think for one thing, people generally don't know that for a long, a long time in the Court's history, the justices had to ride the circuit. They had to go around the country and sit on cases. And they weren't sitting in Washington, DC all the time as they are now. And that was extremely challenging for the justices. None of them liked it. And it was very burdensome. It went on for a long time. And I think most people are surprised to learn it.

Host
When you were when you were doing the research on this things, did you ever think, "Wow, how did this institution survive with all of the, with all of the things that went on?"

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
I didn't think that it had to survive, we had to have a Supreme Court cord. But the challenges in those days were so substantial, that it made it difficult to get justices. And to get good people, you need to have a work pattern that doesn't just kill you. And that one almost did. So I think that's the biggest surprise for people.

Host
You told us yesterday in the opening general session that too many Americans believe that justices are politicians with black robes, and that you advocate taking politics out of judicial selection. In a culture that seems to demand instant accountability from everyone in public life, how confident are you that we can pull judges away from the political venue?

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Well, I don't think it's hard to pull the judges as well as how do you pull a public back for having faith that justices have no interest in being political figures? They don't want it. So of course, there are happy not to have that impression or that experience. But for members of the public, it's hard for them to think of any high official in government is not being some kind of a political figure.

Host
Do with the current Supreme Court is viewed as politicians with black room, Rose said, yeah,

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
that's hard to say you'd have to take a nationwide polls, I have the answer to that. I'm sure there are those around the country citizens who still think that way. We hope that through education over the years that a majority perhaps understand that's not the case. But we don't know.

Host
You talked about the importance of civics education, in schools. Tell us how you think better civics education, would contribute to better view of the judiciary and just generally better informed public.

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
Young people spend the early years in school, learning the basic framework of our government. It's terribly important that young people do learn that and that they learn who the public officials are, and how they're selected, and how they work to try to make our government function. And most important, young people need to know they are citizens, and they are going to grow up and the voters, and they are going to determine who represents us and who does. But this is very important for us. And young people have to learn this. It isn't inherited through the gene pool. And it isn't taught effectively in enough of the schools. So this becomes a very important task that we have, as adults in this country free to try to educate young people about how the government is structured, how it works, and how every citizen is part of it.

Host
Since we're at a gathering of state legislators, and since you served in the Arizona Senate, how do you believe your tenure as a state legislator, shaped your view from the bench?

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
That experience was a wonderful experience for me to deal with the other agencies of state government and to work with them and to see what we could do to make the state function more effectively? And very important? How do we educate young people about our state government and how it works, and now they are citizens? And part of it? That's important.

Host
There seems to be a greater push today, especially after the conclusion of the recent Supreme Court term to make the Supreme Court more transparent. Do you believe that permitting cameras the court would, or even allowing live transformations of of the decisions would make the court more transparent?

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
I really don't think so. Because at bottom, the Supreme Court issues, written opinions, saying everything they are saying that affects the cases that they decide. It's there in print for all of us to read and understand. Now, you can't have more clarity than that. Tell me what other branch of government puts in writing everything that it does and says. There isn't one. It's the judicial branch that does that, that says everything and it's doing. And so it's hard to be more open than the Supreme Court. The only thing that the Court has not done, is to allow cameras in the courtroom. You can go to the Court, you can sit there, but not with your camera taking pictures. And I don't think that would make a substantial amount of difference, to tell you their truth.

We have artists there who draw pictures of the justices sitting there. And I can't see that that makes the least bit of difference in understanding what the Court's doing. The court publishes everything that it says and issues that for the whole public, the whole nation to read. And you can't be much more open than that. Furthermore, in every case that it decides, all the opinions are published info. And no other branch of government does that you don't see the president writing a full explanation of everything he does and why you don't see the Congress doing that. You just see laws they pass. And so for the court to have to write down everything it does and explain it is certainly amongst open up the three branches.

Host
During your tenure on the court, you were described in media as a centrist, a moderate centrist, a classic conservative, and even as a moderate establishment progressive, did you when you heard those levels, and you think any of those got—

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
You know, for heaven's sakes, and it's all right. I mean, it's the job of the press to try to describe for the public what the press thinks it sees in nine justices. I don't think it's very helpful, because the Supreme Court is the only agency of the government, as I said before, that explains everything it does in written form. And every justice is out there, explaining in full, the justice's thinking on these issues. And that's impressive.

Host
You were described, variously in the time on the Court as the most powerful woman in America. Did you feel that way?

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
No, certainly not. But every member of the Supreme Court has a certain amount of, shall we say, ability to express oneself in public in writing about the merits of the issues we're deciding. And that's special, and everybody does that on the court. And that's unique. I don't think that the members of high courts in other nations do the same thing. They don't explain themselves in written opinions, as we do. So I think we have quite a special system in the United States.

Unknown Speaker
Thank you, Justice O'Connor. Thank you for your time. We promised we would hold it to 10 minutes and we will

Sandra Day O'Connor [automatically transcribed, may contain inaccuracies]
play You're very welcome. Okay, and have a good meeting. I think it's great that all of you get together.

Host
Thank you.