SANDRA DAY O'CONNOR
Tuesday, February 4, 1997
Joan Horne, former Mayor of the Town of Paradise Valley, and myself, Ann Townsend, are most privileged to interview Justice of the Supreme Court, Sandra Day O'Connor. Justice O'Connor, thank you very much for your graciousness in granting this interview in your home in Paradise Valley.
Interviewer: Do we have your permission in quoting you in part or all of this interview for our project on the history of Paradise Valley, Arizona?
O'Connor: I think we will do the interview first and then decide that.
Interviewer: All right. Are you a native of Arizona?
O'Connor: Yes and no. I grew up on the family cattle ranch in the eastern part of Arizona and the western part of New Mexico. The ranch was in both states. To get to the ranch house, we had to drive through miles and miles of New Mexico, before we crossed back into Arizona. The house was in Arizona. My grandfather started that ranch in 1880. That was where my parents were living when I was their first child. My mother wanted to go to the hospital for the birth of her first child, understandably. Her mother and father were living in El Paso, Texas, where my mother had lived before she married my father. Shortly before my expected arrival, my mother went to El Paso. I was born in Hope Will Do Hospital in El Paso. I understand that structure is no longer there. As soon as she felt up to travelling, she arrived back to the ranch with a relative, we got in a car and drove back to the Lazy-B Ranch which was home. That's where I grew up. My birth certificate says "El Paso, Texas." When I was appointed to the Court, the newspaper in El Paso quoted me as being "Texan", they sent me the metal plate that they then used for the front page of the newspaper in 1981 when I went on the Court, and it said, "El Pasoan Appointed to High Court." So they like to claim me, too. But I must say that we had our family roots in Arizona.
Interviewer: Was your grandfather in any particular Town that we would know?
O'Connor: It was between Duncan, Arizona and Lordsburg, New Mexico. We were 45 miles from Town so we didn't have near neighbors.
Interviewer: Did you go to school in New Mexico or Arizona?
O'Connor: My mother tried first teaching me. She was a school teacher and thought maybe that would work, but she felt I did not have any children at all to see and play with and maybe I should go to school in a normal school. I went back to El Paso for kindergarten and lived with my grandparents. I ended up staying with them for the school years, from kindergarten to high school, with one year where I tried going to a school in Lordsburg, New Mexico. But it was such a long commute. It was very hard. I left the ranch house before daylight and got home after dark. It was just too much so I went back to El Paso and finished up.
Interviewer: It was good you had grandparents to live with but how did you do that?
O'Connor: Five years old is so young to be away from home. It was very hard on my parents to have their only child gone so much of the time. My growing up memory of El Paso is being homesick for the ranch.
Interviewer: In-Town living includes living as a city girl and ranch girl. After you finished high school, you wanted to go college, you picked Stanford in California.
O'Connor: It is the only university I had in mind to attend which was quite foolish because I think now we know youngsters should apply to several and hope to get into one. I don't think the competition was as tough in those days as it is today. My high school in El Paso forgot to tell me about the college entrance exam because so few students took it. I missed the college entrance exam. That was pretty tough, to gain admission to Stanford, my only school application. The principal at my high school in El Paso, a public high school, contacted Stanford admission process and somehow said it was all his fault and would they please make an exception and take me provisionally and give me any exams they wanted when I arrived on the campus. I'm sure it wouldn't happen today, but luckily, Stanford agreed. My first thoughts on getting to Stanford and being left on the campus was to go and take a bunch of exams. Luckily, they decided to keep me. I went to both undergraduate and law school at Stanford.
Interviewer: After you finished law school, where did you go from there?
O'Connor: I was a year ahead of my husband, John, in law school. We married after I was out and before he graduated. We needed a source of income and I very much wanted to work as a lawyer because that's what I prepared for and couldn't get a job. It was before law firms had hired any women. None of them were interested in giving me an interview. I finally learned that the County Attorney in San Mateo County, California, had hired a woman attorney in that office. I thought if they could do it once, they could do it again. I went up there and had interviews with the County Attorney and his two deputies. Neither of them wanted to hire me. I went back to my family ranch and composed this long letter to them explaining why they needed me. I'm telling them my whole life story in hopes that something in there would attract them to give me a job. They did give me a job. My first job as a lawyer was in the public sector as a Deputy County Attorney. I really enjoyed it. It was great fun. I actually had more responsibilities than a lot of my classmates who had found work in private law firms. I was very happy with that result. I received a letter in the past twelve months from the San Mateo County Historical Society. They attached a copy of my letter of me trying to get a job. The County Attorney had kept it all those years. They wanted us to let them show the original in their museum in San Mateo County. I looked at it, read it, and couldn't believe it. I had forgotten about the letter. I got my law clerk and said, "Just look at that. If I had gotten that from any of you, I would put it directly in the wastebasket and said she's a nut." But, anyway, it got the job done in those days. It
reminded me of how hard it was to get a job in those days. It shows what one would through to try to persuade them to give me one.
Interviewer: I'm sure it just really shows your enthusiasm for your desire to get a job.
O'Connor: It certainly did that. That was a funny experience. (It is a great story.) I was happy working there. My husband then graduated. We lived in La Jolla because of my job. It was the Korean War and there was a draft. He was drafted and taken into the army and sent to Fort Ord, down in the Monterey peninsula in California. He did basic training and suffered through all that and I would go see him once or twice when they permitted him to actually see his spouse. He was very thin and had had pneumonia. He looked terrible. He put in an application to join the Judge Advocate General's corps of the army, which is the branch for lawyers. He was accepted which was wonderful. He was asked to go to training school at the University of Virginia. There is a training school there for the Judge Advocate General at the University of Virginia. So I had to give up my well-loved job that I had worked so hard to get and live with him. After school, he was sent to Germany rather than Korea, which was unusual. We were very happy. We had never traveled anywhere so there we were in Frankfurt, Germany. We stayed there three years. I got a job as a lawyer in the Quarter Master Corp. I enjoyed that. He was working at the Judge Advocate General's office and he enjoyed his work very much. We lived very well and for the only time in our lives, we were able to save money because we made more than we needed to spend which was a very happy time of our lives. We had no children yet. We did a lot of traveling and it was time for him to
get out of the service. We both liked to ski. We had a little money saved. We rented a cottage in ____, Austria. We moved there and stayed through an entire winter season, from the first snow flake to the last. We skied every single day, in the rain, in the blizzards, in whatever. We had a wonderful experience. We eventually ran out of money and thought it was time to come home. We had purchased a little Volkswagen in Germany and we shipped that overseas on the boat we took to go home. We landed in New York and we then drove across country. My husband was in the process of trying to figure out where to go work and live. I had never spent time in the Phoenix area. Arizona and Phoenix was on our list of places to look for jobs. John got an interview with Fennemore Craig first in downtown Phoenix. It was a firm with only 12 or 13 lawyers at that time. He obtained a job offer from them which he very much appreciated. We looked also in the San Francisco and Los Angeles areas. He had grown up in San Francisco. We talked it over and he wanted to accept the job in Phoenix. That suited me because my family still lived on the ranch and I thought that was close enough. We knew only a few people here in Phoenix. One couple we knew was William Rehnquist and his wife, Nan. He is now the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. He and I were in the same class at Stanford Law School. He was a long-time friend. I also had known his wife when she was an undergraduate at Stanford. That was one couple we knew well. Another was Fred and Jackie Steiner. Jackie served in the State legislature for quite a while. Fred is a wonderful lawyer. They are a fabulous couple. He was in my class at law school at Stanford, as was Bill Rehnquist. So we knew Jackie and Fred. Jackie had also gone to Stanford. We knew Sam Applewhite and his wife. He had grown up in Phoenix and was in law school at the same I was. So we knew the Applewhites. With a
very small circle of friends, we came here. We knew another couple of friends who were here temporarily. He was working for IBM. Their names were Don and Diane Cooley. The Cooleys said that there was a wonderful area where we could buy a lot. They thought we could get one quite inexpensively. It was out in the desert, on the east side of Phoenix, in the County. We went out to look at this property. We stopped by the Hermosa Inn which was already in existence there as an old adobe structure. The Cooleys knew the owner of the Hermosa Inn. We went over that day and swam in the pool and sat around, hitting a few balls on the tennis court, and looked at the lot that our friend thought might be for sale. We thought it was a wonderful neighborhood. There was just desert out there, maybe two or three houses had already gone up. But otherwise very much unoccupied and unbuilt. There was a house beyond the Hermosa Inn, up Palo Cristi which was then a dirt road, that belonged to the publisher and owner of a Phoenix newspaper (Pulliam). There were two old adobe houses on the east side of Palo Cristi as you went up. One was owned for many years by Jo and Carter Norris. The other was owned by the Pulliams . So that was the neighborhood so we decided to buy the lot. We were at the end of the block. We learned later that there was an additional parcel of land immediately to the east of us which we also acquired. Then we set about getting a design for our house. I have lived on a ranch, in an adobe house. The adobes were made right there on the ranch. There was an old adobe maker in Duncan, Arizona, who knew the exact formula of silt, clay, dirt and straw that it took to make good sun-dried adobe. Now these were not baked adobes, these were sun-baked. He made the adobes to add on at the Lazy-B Ranch to the original adobe structure. I don't know how the original structure in the late 1800's was made. The original structure was a four-room house adobe. When
I was nine years old, my father added on to the house. Many years later, when my brother returned to help run the ranch, they built a second house that adjoined the main house. I hand in mind that it would be nice to have an adobe house in what later became Paradise Valley. It was very much a western area at that time. We found a young architect who was working in Scottsdale. He came up with a design for using the sun-dried adobe. We were able to locate a pit in the Salt River bed in Tempe that had the right mix of clay, silt, sand and straw to make some good adobe. So we decided to proceed with the design of this house. At the same time, it was very modern in its design, with an eight foot overhang and a big pitched wood roof, with a lot of open beams and wood inside. A lot of glass all looking out at Camelback Mountain. It was quite a nice design that we liked a lot. It was a little unusual. The kitchen faced east and I could see the Praying Monk. The mountain changed color. In the morning it was gorgeous when the sun was coming up, and in the evening it would turn pink, mauve and purple. The minute I walked in the house coming home from work, I would sit down and look out and peace would settle on me. It was the most peaceful, beautiful site. I would catch my breath just sitting and looking out that window. We didn't have much money, we were struggling. We couldn't afford air conditioning. We did put in a swamp cooler. A cooler that water drips and you smelled moisture. We had to leave the doors and windows open so that it moves through the house. Something not everyone wants to do these days with burglaries and so forth. In those days, we didn't worry about locking doors. We didn't have enough insulation and tons of glass. Thermopane in those days didn't exist. We sweltered in the summer but we had the swamp cooler. It was a wonderful location. The people to the west were screened off because the house looked to the east. We had olive
trees and citrus trees. There was an area in the back big enough to be a basketball court or a volleyball court. It was a great area for the kids to play in and build forts. This was in the '50's. We came back in 1957 and ending up buying that lot. We stayed there on that lot until I went on the Court in 1981. We saw all of the development come along. Houses built all up Palo Cristi to Lincoln. Governor Stanford of Arizona had homesteaded this entire area where our house was, and all along Palo Cristi, both west and east of us. Stanford's son was living in that area. Eventually, the family lived long enough to see all of it sold and developed at very handsome prices. I'm sure it was a homestead at first. Phoenix Country Day School was built. Stanford Drive went through. The Lutheran Church was built at the corner of Stanford and Palo Cristi. The Hermosa Inn was sold to a man who was a policeman in the east. He and his wife ran it for some years. It was a neighborhood place to go. They had a place where you could have meals if you wanted them. We grew up knowing all the different people who lived in that area. When we bought the lot and began to live in that area, it was part of Maricopa County. It was not incorporated. The people who lived in our area, to the north and to the east, were on one or more acres. You could have substantial size property and not be crowded. The people who lived in the area, valued very highly that concept of having some space around them if they could and not having it become developed with commercial corridors. I don't know who first decided that it might be possible to incorporate a Town. Your research may tell you, but I can't tell you. We talked to Jack Huntress. Barbara vonAmmon might know.
Interviewer: We have some names and doing some research. She is on my list and I will have to call her.
O'Connor: When we bought our lot, the vonAmmons already owned the property out on Doubletree, and they had quite a sizeable acreage. Barbara, like you, served as Mayor for some years. She and her husband will have good knowledge of who the start-up people were who first got that idea. I think one of the first we talked to was Jack Huntress. In any event, it was decided it was worth trying to incorporate. There were laws on the books in the State of Arizona providing for how you can incorporate a Town.
Interviewer: Did you advise the group?
O'Connor: I was not the lawyer for the group, but we had another lawyer. (John Madden) Yes, Jack Madden, John called Jack, and his wife. Jack Madden was a well-known lawyer. He built a house a fairly short distance from ours, more to the east and the turnoff was from Stanford Drive. We used to see the Maddens quite a bit because they had a little boy who was probably a couple of years older than our oldest boy. Jack may have given a little advice on that.
Interviewer: There was a Raymond O. Mitchell who was an attorney. He was on the Planning and Zoning Board of Maricopa County. He was the one that came back to the group of people and said if we want to keep one house per acre, we have to incorporate.
O'Connor: There is no question in my mind that Phoenix would continue its move to expand and incorporate an area. Scottsdale was moving to the west and Phoenix was moving to the east. Phoenix had no zoning provision for lots of an acre or more. Nothing to protect us. Their typical zoning pattern was to amend their zoning from time to time so they would develop commercial strips along a drive such as Lincoln, or Camelback or Tatum. There was a lot of concern with building among people who had bought lots and had houses build in this areas. My husband and I participated in that first effort to collect signatures on appropriate petitions to incorporate as a Town, a certain area geographically. We had meetings that were concerned where to draw the boundaries exactly. We were kind of an odd level boundary as you know. We agreed to help and get enthusiastic support and signatures on the petitions. We did and, of course, it was successful. I think looking back, it was essential if there was to be a place such as we enjoyed now in Paradise Valley without commercialism and where the zoning has been maintained. That was an exciting thing to watch. I always took pleasure in seeing what happened and how it went. Jack Huntress served as Mayor for a long time. He was a wonderful Mayor. A great person to work with. He had such a nice manner. There was never any real difficulty. You could always work with Jack Huntress. I think we were awfully lucky to have him in those early years. We were very, very happy to be among the early residents of the Town.
Interviewer: Did you do any volunteer work for the Town after they were incorporated?
O'Connor: I did a few little things. John did, too. Phil vonAmmon served as Magistrate for the Town for a long time. If you ever got a traffic ticket, you went in front of Phil vonAmmon. It was quite a time. It was fun to see it develop. I did some things for the Town and always took a great interest.
Interviewer: Did you ever serve as lawyer for the Town?
O'Connor: No, I never did that because I started a law practice. When I came to Phoenix in '57, none of the firms here had hired a woman. I opened a law office with a young man as partner whom I had met when I took the Bar Review course in Tucson. We opened a little office in Maryvale, way over on the west side, where John Long was building like crazy. We were in a shopping center on Indian School Road where John Long's first shopping center was located. Our neighbors at the law office were a T.V. repair shop, a bank branch, a supermarket, a liquor store, a dry cleaners, and so forth. A long drive from Paradise Valley. I had one child then, our oldest son, Scott, who later served for a time on the Council. I think he served for a time on the Planning and Zoning Commission. I think John may have been on the Planning and Zoning Commission at one time. I will have to ask John. I know that after we left Arizona, Scott eventually became active in the Town because he was living there too. I was very happy that Scott continued a family interest. Our little son, Brian, didn't want to leave the neighborhood. They all enjoyed it. Brian moved just a few blocks away. He's off 40th Street, just north of Stanford Drive. But that's a little pocket that is part of Phoenix. It is interesting to me that Scott and his wife have now bought an old house on Denton Lane, the same block where he grew up. He wants to tear the house down and rebuild.
Interviewer: He isn't living in Camelback Country Estates?
O'Connor: No, he sold that house and they are renting temporarily in Scottsdale until their Paradise Valley project is complete. He will be back in the Town across the street from where he grew up. I like that because it meant to him that he loved growing up here. I think all the boys did, the fact that my son Brian, as close as he is, tells me the same thing.
Interviewer: You have spoken so romantically about this lovely house that you've built.
O'Connor: I'm a person when I'm happy someplace and have to leave it, it is very hard for me to go back and see it again because I want to remember it as it is in my memory. I want to preserve it as I knew it in my book of happy memories. I find it extremely disturbing to go back on Denton Lane and not be there and know that it belongs to someone else. That is kind of an historic spot. You ought to keep an eye on that house and don't let it get torn down.
Interviewer: I hope not. I think we are doing something about it but for some we may be too late.
O'Connor: Those were precious times. We had a couple of scares when we lived there mostly concerning our children. We had no fences. The children would roam around in the neighborhood. There were some other wonderful children as time went by and they became very close friends right there in the neighborhood that they loved playing with. They played make-believe games, building old forts, and having special things that they just loved doing. Over to the east of us, along Camelback and Stanford Drive, as you go south towards Camelback to the right hand side, were some old movie sets called Cudia City. It was a western movie set used for many old films. We could see just the tips of roofs of Cudia City as we looked from our huge picture windows to the east. One night when the children were small, something woke us up. I looked out our window from the bedroom and I could see a fire raging. We got the children up and we all went out on our patio and looked. Something had caught on fire at Cudia City. There were mostly old wooden structures, a western look. The whole place burned down. It was below Phoenix Country Day School and now it has become businesses, a few apartments on the eastern side. While we were living in that house, Phoenix Country Day School acquired the property to build their school. (When did that open?) It was in the '60's because our son, Scott, was in the first kindergarten at Country Day School because we lived right there and he could just walk. He would walk from our house to over to Country Day. It was amazing. Of course, it did very well. I served on the Board of Trustees for a time. All three of our children went there for some of their years in school. It was very convenient and developed nicely, I thought.

Interviewer: When we moved here, we had one of my children in high school. We didn't know anything about the schools so we sent her to Phoenix Country Day School.
O'Connor: When our children were quite small, they would wander around. One time, one of the children, it may have been our youngest son, Jay, was in his pajamas with little plastic feet on the bottom, wandered off with our dog or our cat. We were just terrified. We called the neighbors, and we started hunting. We couldn't find him or the animals either so we knew the two of them had to be together. We came back and called the County Sheriff. This was before Paradise Valley had a police staff. We finally found him. He was way over, below Country Day School, wandering in those pajamas. He was lucky we found him. That was very scary. We had one more experience with the boys when we lived there that was terrifying. Our son, Brian, wandered off one day. He has always been an adventurer of the most daring type. There he was gone. Again, we sought all the neighborhood help we could get. Brian was found by an old man who lived in a cardboard structure along the canal with the permission of one of the Stanford’s who had all that property. He was a funny looking old man. There was no form of structure. He was encrusted with a good deal of dirt and didn't shave. He had long hair and a long beard. He kept a shopping cart from the market that was on 32nd and Camelback which was our closest market. He would go up and down the canal, down 32nd to the market and back with his shopping cart. He had found Brian on the canal banks. We were very grateful to this man who lived there for several years even after it became a Town. I'm glad the Town didn't toss him out. I'm sure he eventually died. He
was one of those oddities about the Town. He was very peculiar but obviously saved Brian or he would have ended up in the canal.
Interviewer: It was a different era, too.
O'Connor: We saw plenty of coyotes, rabbits and all kinds of wildlife.
Interviewer: My oldest daughter lives near the medical center at Tatum and Shea. I went up to visit one morning, and there was two coyotes crossing the street. We have rabbits and birds around the golf course.
O'Connor: There was this wonderful roadrunner on Denton Lane. I got the biggest kick out of it. We had an enormous Bull snake. The thing was just huge. I'm sure he got big because we had mice out there, gophers, and heaven knows what else. This snake lived in a big hole right by the walkway as you walked into my door. When one would go outside, we would see this enormous snake. He was quite nice to have because he kept the pests down. The children learned that he was a good thing, not a bad thing. We were very happy to have him there. One day we even saw one of the roadrunners catch a little garden type snake to eat.
Interviewer: I know you were talking about how everyone worked together, had a focus for being and wanting to maintain the area. Do you have that sense of community in Paradise Valley still?
O'Connor: No, I don't. You have to understand I no longer reside here. I come periodically when I can. There is a great deal of disagreement going on over what seems to be at times things that don't deserve such strife.
Interviewer: Why do you think that people are on such a disagreeable edge?
O'Connor: I really don't know. I'm not close enough to it. One can only hope that people can step back, take a big breath, and decide that what has been historically precious in this Town, this community of Paradise Valley, is good relations among all the people who live here -- a shared interest in a low key life style that works for them, and not a lot of public disagreement and unhappiness. Just work together in a pleasant and not involve people in so much dispute.
Interviewer: Do you think it is more political, whereas it used not to be?
O'Connor: People were asked to serve and didn't make a big political career out of it which it now seems to be. Here's my husband, John.
John: Initially, when this Town was formed, it was just a small part of what we know today. I was president of the Stanford Acre Zoning Protective Association, which was basically people who were not going as far west as 32nd and north of the canal, then up into the mountains. We had gathered together before the Town came into existence
because we were interested in the same thing the Town was interested in which was to have the one acre zoning. The people who were the real founders of the Town had the same fears and concerns that we did, and, of course, they wanted to incorporate. Shortly after that was done, I called a meeting of the people in our neighborhood, who were similarly situated in terms of our goals, the life style, and the land. We were probably the biggest addition in one block. I'm sure other people came in the north and the east. I know we were a big block in terms of acreage and in terms of people. Essentially, everybody was in favor of it. We held a meeting at the Unitarian Church where everybody gathered because we were very concerned. Of course, much had been done in terms of creating a Town. It was created between Phoenix and Scottsdale. We didn't have any power and we didn't know what was going to happen. People wanted to keep the space and we didn't want commercial activity. That's how I got involved. Phil vonAmmon was a partner of mine. He and Barbara were very, very active from the beginning. I got involved after our group came in. I was on the Planning and Zoning Commission of the Town. Then I became Chairman of the Planning and Zoning Commission. Thereafter, people from our area served one way or the other. There was no longer a need for our Association because the Town was now in effect taking control of the situation. Their intentions and their views were the same as ours.
Interviewer: Do you find that feeling existing today?
John: Well, we don't live there now. But I have a sense that the people's views who opt to be in the Town are the same views as ours were when we started here. We wanted
space. There was a concern about commercial development; there was concern of the two large entities on each side of us; and there was a concern regarding the one acre situation. Because if you broke down from the one acre situation, you couldn't lock the door. You would have people come in and make the lots smaller and smaller. The one thing you wrote in blood that that was what you would stand for. Some of us knew that we would have to give a little to certain quadrants along Scottsdale. We wanted to make the best deal we could. We wanted to transition it any way we could so that Scottsdale couldn't come in and claim that we were unyielding in terms of Scottsdale Road and we would get into more problems with that kind of a debate than what we did. I think it is a miracle that it worked out so well. You have to hand it to the initial people who really did it because it took a lot of time and a lot of effort but it preserved the community in a wonderful way. I think that we should say "thank you" to a lot of the early "settlers" who were the ones who really did it.
Interviewer: They did and they did a very good job. The fact that it was all given time is a unique and important aspect. I think that many incorporated communities in the country would stand in awe if they knew that, and it still is, given time.
John: This doesn't relate to our immediate situation, but one of the differences between America as a whole and Europe as a whole is that in this country you have the sense of volunteerism. In Europe and most places in the world, you don't have that. This was another example of what makes this country work. The other thing is that when you have people gathering together in a pro-bono activity, even though they have something at
stake, that's what brings people together. That's what makes a good community. I think that once we join a community, you have to nurture it and have able people who will put a lot time in it even though you may have conflicts. A lot of people have given up a lot. Tom Sutherland, a close friend of mine, gave up a lot of vacations or come all the way back to go to that meeting even though it was a nothing meeting.
Interviewer: Well I didn't run again because I never missed a meeting. I put in 15 years in various jobs and positions. I decided that it was time for my husband and I to travel. It was time for me to do something else.
O'Connor: Who was that wonderful woman who worked at the Town for a long time. (Helen Marston) Did you know her?
Interviewer: Then Mary Ann Brines became Town Clerk.
John: It is so great that they named a street after Helen. She spent a lot of her time volunteering. She always said, "This is the Town of Paradise Valley." She was the administrative type.
Interviewer: I never knew her but I have seen a picture of her. Her countenance is just beautiful. The main purpose of this Committee that Mayor Davis asked me to Chair is to try to preserve our history. A lot of people do not know about it. Besides the interviews
that we are doing, we are also going to have a written document. I am in the process of trying to find a permanent house for it, but we will.
O'Connor: Good. One last thing before we stop. It occurred in 1964 when Barry Goldwater was the Republic nominee and ran for President. His house was up on the hill where it still is. We were living south of the tracks, as they used to say, by the canal. I was precinct chairman of the area where he and I lived. I had to gather signatures from the people in this area for candidates as they ran for office. I went to vote in the General Election on the appropriate day, in the Presidential Election in 1964. The precinct polling site that year was at Phoenix Country Day School. I stood in line almost the whole way from the street into the building, with people lined up to vote. In line, at the same time, was Barry Goldwater and his wife, Peggy. They were there to vote. It was just such an unbelievable feeling to live in this little Town of Paradise Valley on a General Election day, and be voting for a man who was a neighbor and a resident of the Town, standing in line like we were to go in and cast his ballot.
John: And not go in front of the line, either. They let the kids out of school because they finally realized that this was historic.
Interviewer: That is what we feel strongly about. We are very grateful to both of you for your contribution. I can hardly wait to get the message out to the people that we have passed up the real key of a caring community since we are behaving in such a self-serving way today, it seems like.
Joan Horne: I've lived here for 18 years and have seen a lot of changes and I don't think is good for the Town. Thank you very, very much.